Are we haggling over the wrong things?

[SAJ-99]

Yes, we still need words. It's closer to 8 billion.

Also, the chart does not address how much insecticide, pesticide, herbicide, wetland draining, monoculture, and polluted runoff it took to achieve those gains.

7, 8, I can't keep up. But not the point. The chart simply showed how it is possible we feed the population. I agree we destroyed the environment in making those gains.

 

[beginnerhunter]

Youre projecting your values onto others a little too much at the end there. I think the nihilism in most cases is largely tongue-in-cheek, and there is enjoyment and satisfaction to be had without spawning spawn, too, dying alone - we all die alone! - included. Id argue there is equal, but different, enjoyment to be had without being tied down!*

Youre right on with much of the rest, but as pointed out by @neffa3, nothing is going to change until/unless its too late. Its just not, not at a macro scale. Thats, of course, not a reason not to try at the micro level (reducing, reusing, recycling, making tee shirts, etc.), nor is it a reason not to spawn if thats what makes you happy.

*And, I like them well enough, the small humans. I took my little niece out shooting for the first time this past weekend, along with her older brother who comes with me whenever he can and is excited to do the apprentice hunter program with me next season. Both of them browns, Ill add. Both my brother and sister married immigrants and spawned spawns -- math, as you said - plus its the Merkan way! - borderwalls be damned.

Yes, definitely projecting my worldview, which is based on 40 years of experiencing most of what life has to offer, including indulging in my own "freedom", and many many years of contemplation and, I'll admit, much naval gazing. I've traveled, I've done most things. And in the end all is vanity, a chasing after the wind. This is the standard soapbox rant I deliver anywhere there is a discussion about life, meaning, and purpose. Regardless of the fact it annoys everyone.

As for dying alone, if you mean the moment of death I suppose you are correct. If you are talking about the process of growing old and the body declining, i would obviously disagree. Most of mine and my wife's dead family members had family enjoying their company for many years of old age and at least one person present in the room with them at the moment of death. As opposed to:

Who Will Care for ‘Kinless’ Seniors? (Published 2022)

Nearly one million Americans have no immediate family members to provide assistance if needed. The number is expected to grow.

www.nytimes.com

"'Friends and neighbors may help with meals or pick up a prescription, but they’re not going to help you in the shower,' Dr. Margolis said."

Those "chosen families" millenials like to talk about are a mirage. I'm glad ur siblings had children with immigrants, I hope my children do the same! You have nephews and nieces to invest in and that's awesome.

 

[BrentD]

7, 8, I can't keep up. But not the point. The chart simply showed how it is possible we feed the population. I agree we destroyed the environment in making those gains.

Those are not gains, they are loans against the future to buy time. Those loans will be paid back, with interest, when Mother Nature has had enough!

That's what you and many others do not get. You have not gained anything, meerly put off payment until a later date. That date is closer than we think.

 

[Irrelevant]

That date is closer than we think.

A statement that has been made by someone, since there were someone's around to make statements.

But I get your point, I just don't hold it as tightly as you do.

 

[brocksw]

I agree with @BrentD

A sign of increasing corn production is not "gains". All row crops would probably show a similar graph. The modern ag industry around the world, is responsible for much if not most of the biodiversity problems we have. We turn over 1-2 million acres of prairie every year in the US. That's prairie we will likely NEVER get back. That's not a gain in my opinion.

I'm also not sure how to feed a growing world population without continuing on the same trajectory. I don't know the solutions.

 

[SAJ-99]

That's what you and many others do not get.

How do you know I don't get that? Actually, I agree with you. Don't make assumptions from a corn yield chart.

 

[BirdManMike]

Yes, definitely projecting my worldview, which is based on 40 years of experiencing most of what life has to offer, including indulging in my own "freedom", and many many years of contemplation and, I'll admit, much naval gazing. I've traveled, I've done most things. And in the end all is vanity, a chasing after the wind. This is the standard soapbox rant I deliver anywhere there is a discussion about life, meaning, and purpose. Regardless of the fact it annoys everyone.

As for dying alone, if you mean the moment of death I suppose you are correct. If you are talking about the process of growing old and the body declining, i would obviously disagree. Most of mine and my wife's dead family members had family enjoying their company for many years of old age and at least one person present in the room with them at the moment of death. As opposed to:

Who Will Care for ‘Kinless’ Seniors? (Published 2022)

Nearly one million Americans have no immediate family members to provide assistance if needed. The number is expected to grow.

www.nytimes.com

"'Friends and neighbors may help with meals or pick up a prescription, but they’re not going to help you in the shower,' Dr. Margolis said."

Those "chosen families" millenials like to talk about are a mirage. I'm glad ur siblings had children with immigrants, I hope my children do the same! You have nephews and nieces to invest in and that's awesome.

Not to sound too nihilistic (yet again), it seems to be ALL vanity whether investing in raising spawn or in not and pursuing whatever else. That may be what youre saying - we all find purpose and meaning differently and whichever way we choose, it is for ourselves, leaving only a short legacy, if any, on the earth, little longer than the time we have to spend here (unless we are Hitler, or something, in which case the legacy will likely last until @BrentD's predicted apocolypse) .

My wife and I are strapped with her mother who is aging and mentally unbalanced. She is lucky to have us, just as your family is/was lucky. I dont want to ever be in this position, even though I know its inevitable. I wont have any spawn to take care of me, but spawning them is no guarantee! Either way, this is neither reason to spawn nor not.

At 41 myself, I can never be sure whether I am a millennial or not, but I do know those years have given me my own life experiences, none of which have me certain enough to cast aspersions on anyone else's choices but certain enough to feel secure with my own.

 

[Nameless Range]

An aspect of this that I think is really interesting is how recently in the past essentially all of humanity was struggling to survive. Living to adulthood is presently an expectation for a large proportion of the globe. The cultural impact of generation upon generation clawing just to essentially live long enough to reproduce is colossal.

I sometimes think there is a hell of an overlap between the ignorance of those in the past and the privilege of those in the present.

Many today view too many people as existential. Many of the past would be grateful for such a problem.

 

[BrentD]

How do you know I don't get that? Actually, I agree with you. Don't make assumptions from a corn yield chart.

You called them gains. That's how I know.

 

[Deleted member 16014]

I sometimes think there is a hell of an overlap between the ignorance of those in the past and the privilege of those in the present.

Many today view too many people as existential. Many of the past would be grateful for such a problem.

Yeah it's like the transition from past to present survival paradigms was too fast for the theoretical to keep pace with the tangible.

 

[SAJ-99]

You called them gains. That's how I know.

People seem to be in a contentious mood this holiday season.

I notice the irony of someone posting on the internet how someone else doesn't understand. The internet, built with towers and satellites and miles of cable made from resources extracted from the earth using heavy equipment kicking out pollution and CO2...but carry on.

I assure you I get it, but what are the options?

 

[BrentD]

People seem to be in a contentious mood this holiday season.

I notice the irony of someone posting on the internet how someone else doesn't understand. The internet, built with towers and satellites and miles of cable made from resources extracted from the earth using heavy equipment kicking out pollution and CO2...but carry on.

I assure you I get it, but what are the options?

Not being contentious at all. Corn yields are not a solution. You strongly implied otherwise. Yup, I am using the internet and helping bring life on this planet to its knees.

There are no palatable options.

 

[hank4elk]

I'm right where I should be.
Where in the recent past hundreds of particles hit the earth. Both large and small craters abound the area.
Yesterday I thought I saw smoke haze in the afternoon. It was sulfuric gas from Mona Loa...
...we're just specks ,in an instant.

 

[IsThisHeaven?]

I wonder how the pro population control people would feel if their parents were as persuaded by the argument as they are

 

[BrentD]

I wonder how the pro population control people would feel if their parents were as persuaded by the argument as they are

Well, actually, they would not feel anything.

 

[Southern Elk]

This subject is a slippery slope. While I would like to see less people on Earth. I don’t want those “less people” to be my family and friends. I am grateful for the advances in medicine that have allowed my loved ones to live longer, so that my kids got to know their grandparents and in some cases great grandparents. My grandfather’s father died when he was 12. As the oldest son, he had to go to work to feed his mother and 4 siblings. Sure would have been nice for him if medicine was advanced enough to treat his 40 year old father’s high blood pressure. That’s something we all take for granted and many on this very forum wouldn’t be alive even 50 years ago.

 

[Irrelevant]

Population control doesn't have to be a rigid law or even a stick, it can be a carrot. You get a small tax credit for every kid under 3 you don't have, instead of getting one for every child you have.

 

[Irrelevant]

sort of relevant.

 

[Deleted member 18333]

Population control doesn't have to be a rigid law or even a stick, it can be a carrot. You get a small tax credit for every kid under 3 you don't have, instead of getting one for every child you have.

Can I write the headline? " Representative from Washington Sponsors Bill to increase Taxes on Low Income Families " Sound about right on how this would be relayed by the media to the American public?

BTW, I think your idea is a good one.

 

[FI460]

Population control doesn't have to be a rigid law or even a stick, it can be a carrot. You get a small tax credit for every kid under 3 you don't have, instead of getting one for every child you have.

That and better sex education and we could likely get that TFR down to about 1.6.