Are overran National Parks a glimpse of the future of all our public lands?

[Irrelevant]

Given that 98% of the tourists to the big western national parks never go more than an 1/8th of a mile off a boardwalk or paved path, I don't think it will come to that on other western public lands. I'm making up those numbers, so I don't know if it's actually 98% or not, but it's the vast, vast majority. While national parks like Yellowstone offer real back-country opportunities for those willing to get off the beaten path, most of the summer crowds we see are there to experience a much more civilized brush with nature. These folks are never going to drive down the rutted pig paths we call "roads" that lead to the best trailheads in Montana, much less hike 6-10 miles in to catch a fish or shoot an animal.

Make no mistake, the numbers that use the public lands will grow, but I think the percentage of the population willing to really "rough it" will remain fairly small.

Also, I think the huge crowds this year are largely the result of pent-up tourism energy. A lot of Americans decided they were going to take a summer vacation this year come hell or high water. They aren't quite ready to venture back to traditionally popular tourists spots like DC, New York, LA, Hawaii, or Europe, so a lot more than normal decided this was the perfect summer for a road-trip to the great American West.

I don't think I agree. Try getting a backcountry permit in some of the higher demand areas. I backpacked into the most "remote" section of Canyonlands NP this spring. It was at max capacity. Drawing a backcountry permit for the enchantments here in WA was closer to winning the WA lotto, 29k applied for a couple hundred permits.

 

[MTGamecock]

I don't think I agree. Try getting a backcountry permit in some of the higher demand areas. I backpacked into the most "remote" section of Canyonlands NP this spring. It was at max capacity. Drawing a backcountry permit for the enchantments here in WA was closer to winning the WA lotto, 29k applied for a couple hundred permits.

No doubt, there are some crowded areas near major metros that will require the rest of us to work a little harder. In the case of The Enchantments, haven't they been running a lottery for those backcountry permits for decades?

On the subject of reservations, especially free or nearly free ones, anybody have any idea how many of those go wasted? I know Glacier established a reservation system for the GTTS Road this year, but the reservations are free other than a $2 on-line service fee? With no "skin in the game," isn't it likely that a lot of people reserved a time without even knowing if they were going to be traveling to Glacier that week? Or that multiple people from the same group put in for passes on the same day? I know when we visited Philadelphia we had to reserve a timed pass to see Constitution Hall because of the demand. But by the time we went on the tour at 4pm that afternoon, our tour was only half full. I think one of the ironic results of creating a reservation system for anything is that it creates an artificial demand. When those reservations are free, it creates a bit of a frenzy. It will be interesting to see how it works out in Glacier this year. Personally, I don't think Glacier is "over-crowded." They simply have ridiculously small parking lots and a very inefficient shuttle system.

 

[Sytes]

States like Montana have been begging for this most of my life. How much have they spent on tourism advertising? Hell, they created a state agency focused on growing it.
We are told constantly it’s the states most important industry.

Montana is for the wealthy to enjoy and for the locals to be thankful for the opportunity to cater to them in poverty wage service jobs in the summer and handouts in the off season.
I don’t know about other states but Montana can only blame itself. They’ve rolled out the red carpet for this.

I agree Montana depends on tourism $ however, if each state played the "What if" game... no State budget would ever manage.
"What if" a serious virus flipped MT on its ass with an over burdened influx of tourism...?
No State was prepared for such an event. This was not a red carpet gala.

The only half arse saving grace, excluding Boz-Angeles, though the nexus to Yellowstone, etc... maybe not excluding... the land borders halted non essential travel from other countries.

That's not simply Canadians. This includes Australians, UK, Germans, Asian countries, etc.
Take for example the point closest to NW Montana's GNP, Whitefish, Flathead Lake, Bob Marshall Wilderness, Koocanusa, and the influx of people with rental rv's, SUV's, etc, touring throughout Montana and elsewhere.
The Eureka "Roosville" border typically sees 3-5,000 vehicles each day during it's peak Thursday-Saturday's each weekend of the spring-fall seasons with 2-4hr wait times at peak points and including more on Canadian holidays...

Whereas Montana NW and elsewhere depended on the Canadian/other country tourism via land entry... it found States mass influx alone flip our, "red carpet" advertisements for tourism. I can not imagine if the land borders were also open to all travel.

It's not a knock on countries visiting the U.S. though it places the what if outside the common theme of tourism commerce our State depends on.

edited: phone felt the need to change "including" to "excluding". hah! Phone is likely smarter than I though... not this time.

 

[TheNorthStar]

Fortunately, most of em don't get too far from the road. Sucks, but it's theirs too.

 

[SO7mm]

thankfully the medical community has focused more on educating people of the benefits of the vaccine and not healthy diet and exercise throughout the pandemic.

I like this silver lining to something that I continually shake my head and complain about.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

It may take awhile but as long as we go back to some form of normalcy regarding travel and large gatherings I bet interests in the outdoors drops off.
thankfully the medical community has focused more on educating people of the benefits of the vaccine and not healthy diet and exercise throughout the pandemic.

Life style change conversations are basically fruitless… its pretty hard just to get people to take blood pressure medication.

 

[rwc101]

"Americans stop being fat, lazy slobs after doctors tell them to" could be a headline from The Onion.

 

[mtmuley]

I don't think I agree. Try getting a backcountry permit in some of the higher demand areas. I backpacked into the most "remote" section of Canyonlands NP this spring. It was at max capacity. Drawing a backcountry permit for the enchantments here in WA was closer to winning the WA lotto, 29k applied for a couple hundred permits.

If you need a permit to go into the "backcountry", why bother? mtmuley

 

[DouglasR]

Life style change conversations are basically fruitless… its pretty hard just to get people to take blood pressure medication.

1. I totally stole that idea from @MTGomer
2. How is it easier to convince someone to voluntarily be stabbed and pumped full of an unknown fluid than it is to get them to walk 30min a day and eat broccoli?

 

[Deleted member 28227]

1. I totally stole that idea from @MTGomer
2. How is it easier to convince someone to voluntarily be stabbed and pumped full of an unknown fluid than it is to get them to walk 30min a day and eat broccoli?

It’s easier to get someone to let you make an incision in their crotch, and use an artery to put a stint in their heart than it is to get them to stop putting a table spoon of salt on their steak.

If people brushed their teeth 2 times a day and flossed they probably would never need dental work… but some folks seem to love drills in the mouths.

 

[Irrelevant]

If you need a permit to go into the "backcountry", why bother? mtmuley

The second largest petroglyph panel in the US.

 

[Straight Arrow]

If you need a permit to go into the "backcountry", why bother? mtmuley

Because, as in securing a backcountry campsite in the Thorofare of the Yellowstone, then you know you won't be overrun with other backpackers or horses. It is touted to be the most remote spot in the lower 48, so my reserved campsites for August are gold to me ... esp since I severed my patellar tendon last August and had to cancel. Now I'm ready to go and happy to hold a permit.

 

[mtmuley]

Because, as in securing a backcountry campsite in the Thorofare of the Yellowstone, then you know you won't be overrun with other backpackers or horses. It is touted to be the most remote spot in the lower 48, so my reserved campsites for August are gold to me ... esp since I severed my patellar tendon last August and had to cancel. Now I'm ready to go and happy to hold a permit.

I see. Securing a spot in the most remote spot in the lower 48 seems odd to me. Luckily, I have the Bitterroot-Selway. No permit required. mtmuley

 

[blueridge]

I am hopeful that the surge my be a result of Covid. People are not vacationing overseas so they are hitting the parks. Next year, if things are normal, may see a decrease in public land usage. MN fishing license sales were down this year compared to last. Time will tell, but it might not be as bad as it looks from the viewpoint of early July 2021.

I hope you’re right.

My wife and I will be celebrating our 25th anniversary next August (‘22). We’re thinking of recreating our Yellowstone honeymoon, staying in all the same places, etc. Since I worked there I had the advantage of knowing a lot of places off the beaten path, but this year’s pictures of traffic and the shear number of humans has me reconsidering.

It’s not cheap to get into parks/monuments these days. They need to reinvest that money on personnel ... and education on surface shitting and leave no trace. On my FS land hike this evening, I’ve never seen so much toilet paper ON the trail.

 

[mtmuley]

I guess I am lucky. Been to Yellowstone and Glacier a bunch as I live here. From what I gather now, I'm glad I can just go into the mountains here where I live. mtmuley

 

[wa_archer]

I certainly think there will be an increase to areas that will require a limited number of overnight permits. There are some areas that only have overnight permits and will also need day use limited. I for one would like to think that all of these new users of the pass year would be a great thing for the support of public land. Unfortunately the realist in me knows that a lot of them were surface shitting, trash leaving, shoot every sign users that couldnt care less and as soon as other activities open back up will disappear. Hopefully we gained some good people that it awoke a reason to care for public lands. Even more what it did for the health of a lot of kids who never new the true outdoors pass a city park that got out in the last year and went into the woods. Time will tell.

 

[Flatbrimmer]

Lots of public land that requires a pass to use the trail, etc already. It's coming to the Rockies soon enough.

Damn, you say that like you vote in favor!? Say it ain’t so!

 

[Flatbrimmer]

Given that 98% of the tourists to the big western national parks never go more than an 1/8th of a mile off a boardwalk or paved path, I don't think it will come to that on other western public lands. I'm making up those numbers, so I don't know if it's actually 98% or not, but it's the vast, vast majority. While national parks like Yellowstone offer real back-country opportunities for those willing to get off the beaten path, most of the summer crowds we see are there to experience a much more civilized brush with nature. These folks are never going to drive down the rutted pig paths we call "roads" that lead to the best trailheads in Montana, much less hike 6-10 miles in to catch a fish or shoot an animal.

Make no mistake, the numbers that use the public lands will grow, but I think the percentage of the population willing to really "rough it" will remain fairly small.

Also, I think the huge crowds this year are largely the result of pent-up tourism energy. A lot of Americans decided they were going to take a summer vacation this year come hell or high water. They aren't quite ready to venture back to traditionally popular tourists spots like DC, New York, LA, Hawaii, or Europe, so a lot more than normal decided this was the perfect summer for a road-trip to the great American West.

Well said, and my thoughts exactly as far as the overall OP. These same folks you see at Cliff and Wade, Henry’s Fort, YNP GNP primarily aren’t going to stray very far away from the amenities of a “modern lifestyle”… I know dudes that grew up here and won’t camp if it ain’t got a toilet and a shower…. Sissies

 

[Redraider7]

Since obesity rates are still increasing I am going to guess that my honey hole 2 miles in will be safe until we transition to hovercrafts.

 

[Sytes]

Figured this thread fit best for this article.

Very interesting read...

From Destination Marketing to Destination Stewardship - Flathead Beacon

When western Montana’s regional destination marketing organization, Glacier Country, formed in 1985, tourism was practically nonexistent in the eight counties it works with to promote outside of Glacier National Park. Back then, Glacier Country’s primary mission was to market western Montana as...

flatheadbeacon.com