noharleyyet
Well-known member
Think you could coyotee the wife and I thru RMNP in early August....
Are overran National Parks a glimpse of the future of all our public lands?
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i can nearly handle this scene.
but it's this that puts me over the edge
*judgmental puke emoji*
As CO was tip of the spear for the 'new West migration' the last few decades - we already have that in this piece of the Rockies - top of my head:
Indian Peaks Wilderness: You've had to reserve backcountry 'campsites' for 30+ years - no facilities, no developed areas, no visitor centers, etc. Just designated patches of dirt and rocks
Pike National Forest: Started designated 'dispersed' camping sites this year
Crested Butte area (Gunnison NF): In the process of doing the same as Pike
White River NF: Most dispersed camping along the Roaring Fork and Fryingpan is heavily restricted
Portions of the Colorado/Yampa/Green Rivers: Permits required to float/camp for years and more coming
I saw @wllm1313 's post the other day about no dispersed camping in MA and initially thought - "wow that's incredibly restrictive" - but it's either here in small doses already or coming to more and more places.
My wife and I had a rare lunch together today and this was actually a topic of conversation. We are headed north next week and I am already dreading YNP and GTNP. If it were just me, I'd have nothing to do with crossing the 'border' into either park, but my son has only seen YNP once and my future son-in-law has been to neither. Those places, commercial and cleansed and crowded as they are, are still amazing and I want them to go. But I'm the one that's going to take heat for rousing everyone out of bed in the dark so we don't sit in traffic behind 17 buses all day.
This is basically what I am hoping the endgame is. Either that or Thanos shows up with the gauntlet and stones IRL...
EYJONAS!
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There..... dick
ImBillT
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“Too many people on public land”
“don’t you build that wall”
“don’t you build that wall”
Irrelevant
Well-known member
Please explain how this:
is going to help this:
I dare you to find a Hispanic in that photo. I freaking dare you. Now that might be another issue in an of itself.
You might as well argue that martians are the reason for the overcrowding.
1) 'Murican residents
2) It was a joke, I just failed to insert appropriate cartoon emotion.
ImBillT
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You increase the population, you increase the pressure on public land. It’s that simple. People are leaving big cities and big states as they become more crowded. The US population isn’t growing because of high birth rates. It has nothing to do with race. If you think that adding people to the US will not add people to public land and western states just because you found a photo that doesn’t have brown skinned people in it, you’re not thinking very hard.
Name a western state whose population increased, but whose public land use decreased? Are people moving west mostly people who live in rural areas that are not experiencing population increases? Doubt it. Is the increased tourist pressure on public lands coming from rural areas with decreasing populations? Doubt that too.
Saw the writing on the wall over 20 years ago as a Park Ranger in a small county.
A million and a half visitors in one regional park in a county of 140k. My job would go from usual yogi bear banter to full gangbanger/drunk rich boater confrontation,in front of their families.
Year round adventure pass that gave me low fee to travel through YNP,but not stay in a remote campsite anymore.
A million and a half visitors in one regional park in a county of 140k. My job would go from usual yogi bear banter to full gangbanger/drunk rich boater confrontation,in front of their families.
Year round adventure pass that gave me low fee to travel through YNP,but not stay in a remote campsite anymore.
The county put in a reservation system(that was fiasco) and park staff went from a few taking $ between field tasks, to a dozen trying to keep things straight,in the office. They only ventured out of the office for a quick trip before they headed back inside for safety.
My help,was more tasks to deal with. The inside folks jobs.
My help,was more tasks to deal with. The inside folks jobs.
MTGamecock
Well-known member
Given that 98% of the tourists to the big western national parks never go more than an 1/8th of a mile off a boardwalk or paved path, I don't think it will come to that on other western public lands. I'm making up those numbers, so I don't know if it's actually 98% or not, but it's the vast, vast majority. While national parks like Yellowstone offer real back-country opportunities for those willing to get off the beaten path, most of the summer crowds we see are there to experience a much more civilized brush with nature. These folks are never going to drive down the rutted pig paths we call "roads" that lead to the best trailheads in Montana, much less hike 6-10 miles in to catch a fish or shoot an animal.Nothing we don't know or haven't seen already
An Explosion In Visitors Is Threatening The Very Things National Parks Try To Protect
Growing crowds at America's national parks have prompted some of them to allow entry by reserved tickets only. Arches National Park in Utah may be next, and there's renewed controversy over that step.www.npr.org
As more national parks go to a reservation system, I wonder, as growth continues (as it must under this Orwellian system we've created), when will the simply freedoms we as hunters currently take for granted, the wandering seemingly endless tracks of public land, end? Surely if the trend continues at some point, however distant in the future, will it be necessary to make a reservation for a particular slice of our national forest or patch of BLM sage?
Make no mistake, the numbers that use the public lands will grow, but I think the percentage of the population willing to really "rough it" will remain fairly small.
Also, I think the huge crowds this year are largely the result of pent-up tourism energy. A lot of Americans decided they were going to take a summer vacation this year come hell or high water. They aren't quite ready to venture back to traditionally popular tourists spots like DC, New York, LA, Hawaii, or Europe, so a lot more than normal decided this was the perfect summer for a road-trip to the great American West.
antlerradar
Well-known member
I like the idea but could have the unintended consequence of enticing residents of states with low quality parks to move to states with great parks. Look out Montana, Wyoming and other western states.
stealthy_bowman
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No joke, that looks like the trail head parking lot at the unit I hunted last year in SW MT. Only difference is that there were actually MORE cars there...
Cheesehead
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The planet has a carrying capacity. Microcosms do as well.
We don’t know what the exact capacities are in part because they are dynamic.
People are the problem. Population control is the answer. The solutions have varying degrees of discomfort.
We don’t know what the exact capacities are in part because they are dynamic.
People are the problem. Population control is the answer. The solutions have varying degrees of discomfort.
States like Montana have been begging for this most of my life. How much have they spent on tourism advertising? Hell, they created a state agency focused on growing it.
We are told constantly it’s the states most important industry.
Montana is for the wealthy to enjoy and for the locals to be thankful for the opportunity to cater to them in poverty wage service jobs in the summer and handouts in the off season.
I don’t know about other states but Montana can only blame itself. They’ve rolled out the red carpet for this.
We are told constantly it’s the states most important industry.
Montana is for the wealthy to enjoy and for the locals to be thankful for the opportunity to cater to them in poverty wage service jobs in the summer and handouts in the off season.
I don’t know about other states but Montana can only blame itself. They’ve rolled out the red carpet for this.
Carnage2011
Well-known member
I’m sure we’ll see some more competition on our public lands, but I’m not at all worried that they’ll be overrun by the crowd that has to be told not to pet the bison. 90% of these people are made for the city…they are more concerned about lack of wifi than hiking anywhere.
one ate E grain
Active member
Rocky Mountain National Park is empty. Oh Bear Lake Rd, Trail Ridge Road, and the trail up Longs from the Rangers Station are busy, other trails much less so, and off trail below treeline you will see nobody. Campgrounds are full of course, they haven't built any new campgrounds in 30 years, that was intentional. Our Parks and campgrounds are full because that's how things were planned. Budgets have been cut forever and so the NPS just made themselves as little work as possible. All that's needed in 99% of instances is a place to park.
All of our public lands are managed so as to keep the public out. Nameless Range back on comment #11 had a great idea with the "suffering tax" forcing you to walk a ways to get to recreation land. Public lands managers don't want that either, they simply want less people, you can't suffer to hike a mile to get to public lands if there's nowhere to park. Park on county roads and get towed.
All of our public lands are managed so as to keep the public out. Nameless Range back on comment #11 had a great idea with the "suffering tax" forcing you to walk a ways to get to recreation land. Public lands managers don't want that either, they simply want less people, you can't suffer to hike a mile to get to public lands if there's nowhere to park. Park on county roads and get towed.
mevertsen
Well-known member
So you will need a permit to access land to hunt your permit.I hope we never see that day.
See Wyoming HMA systems.
geetar
Well-known member
Thanks for the warning I’ll pass.
