Anybody Buying Yet? Where’s the Bottom?

[Deleted member 28227]

That's the rub? Rules sure could be changed but why?

I don't honestly believe life in America would be substantially better for Americans if the Government had more money to spend. Just as I don't think my life would be substantially better if I had more money to spend. Better allocation of existing resources sure seems like more solid footing. For both our Government and my household. However, I am 100% certain I am operating on a better foundation than our Government.

After thread after thread of finance talk/personal expenditures etc. I think it's fair to say that for the forum I'm very much on the fiscally conservative side, for the country as a whole very very far on that side. I also work in private equity and therefore understand how folks use debt. So sometimes when I make comments I'm highlighting how in fact our world/country works not saying that's how it "should" work.

I agree 100% that we need to reign in spending substantially, and it drives me crazy how both parties run up the deficit every chance they get.

So take those 2 facts into account.

I also think that our laws and tax code should apply to everyone equally, both defacto and de jure. For example you shouldn't be able to do something just because you have a chit load of money. If say corner crossing is illegal then it's illegal, it shouldn't be illegal for Joe blow but then 'permissible' by Wilks bro because people are so scared he will bury you in legal fees that they don't say anything.

So long preamble, to day if a teacher pays 22%, a plumber 24%, and a Doctor pays 35% ($44k to $400k the highest brackets they might hit) then I think billionaires should have to report their income in a manner that allows them to be taxed at the same rates as specified by law.

You shouldn't be able to use your money to hide your money. If you 20 cars and 10 houses you should have had to pay taxes on the money you earned to buy them at, at least, the same rate as someone who owns 1 car and 1 house.

I feel like that's all pretty reasonable

And king for a day, I'd balance the budget and pay down the deficit.

 

[TOGIE]

Opinions vary I suppose but I am neither defending nor bashing wealthy elites. Their existence is a blip on my radar screen. My scorn lies with our elected officials.

honestly, i think it's a danger for our beloved america that we don't look at our elites with as much trepidation as we do our elected officials. they are damn near one in the same after all when you follow the money around.

we are all too focused on R versus D to realize we're getting taken to the cleaners by the people controlling them. call me tin foil hat, but i think we need to be more careful with the way we either don't care about the ultra wealthy and what they do and get away with, or the way we defend the ultra wealthy in all the things they do and get away with.

my main point here is wllms point, the wealthy should not have so many ways to take advantage of the tax code simply because they are wealthy. it has nothing to do with fair share, nothing to do with i'm jealous or angry that they're rich. it's just my principle that the wealthy need to remain in check from the big things to the little things. too much power for any class is a threat to our american experiment.

 

[Deleted member 18333]

After thread after thread of finance talk/personal expenditures etc. I think it's fair to say that that for the forum on very much on the fiscally conservative side, for the country as a whole very very far on that side. I also work in private equity and therefore understand how folks use debt. So sometimes when I make comments I'm highlighting how in fact our world/country works not saying that's how it "should" work.

I agree 100% that we need to reign in spending substantially, and it drives me crazy how both parties run up the deficit every chance they get.

So take those 2 facts into account.

I also think that our laws and tax code should apply to everyone equally, both defacto and de jure. For example you shouldn't be able to do something just because you have a chit load of money. If say corner crossing is illegal then it's illegal, it shouldn't be illegal for Joe blow but then 'permissible' by Wilks bro because people are so scared he will bury you in legal fees that they don't say anything.

So long preamble, to day if a teacher pays 22%, a plumber 24%, and a Doctor pays 35% ($44k to $400k the highest brackets they might hit) then I think billionaires should have to report their income in a manner that allows them to be taxed at the same rates as specified by law.

You shouldn't be able to use your money to hide your money. If you 20 cars and 10 houses you should have had to pay taxes on the money you earned to buy them at, at least, the same rate as someone who owns 1 car and 1 house.

I feel like that's all pretty reasonable

And king for a day, I'd balance the budget and pay down the deficit.

Not much I disagree with in this post.

Not overly savvy on how the wealthy report their income differently than say your average plumber. However, if they are using unrealized gains to get loans on 20 cars and 10 houses then they dont own sh!t. Not much different than the person that is making payments on one house and one car.

If I were king for a day, everyone that works in PE would be required to be kicked in the crotch 10x daily. Nothing personal, I am sure you are the exception rather than the rule.

 

[BigHornRam]

see that's the thing, we all want a limited executive branch and a government that can't become too powerful. we forget that a too powerful class of elites is just as dangerous.

and yet we defend them and drool over them because we all wish we were them.

I wouldn't trade places with any of the wealthy elite. I'm perfectly happy with my own life.

Spend more time focusing on your life, and less time on envy.

 

[TOGIE]

I wouldn't trade places with any of the wealthy elite. I'm perfectly happy with my own life.

Spend more time focusing on your life, and less time on envy.

do you think i'm an elizabeth warren lover or somethign? why do you say these things? it's juvenile

 

[SAJ-99]

You must not listen to the news much then. This idea is about as horrible as you and TOGIEs loan tax.

There’s a growing interest in wealth taxes on the super-rich. Here’s why it hasn’t happened

Americans increasingly favor a wealth tax on the ultra-rich, but despite the uptick in proposals, these policies have struggled to gain traction.

www.cnbc.com

I don’t. But you said posters here had that opinion, but I don’t remember that being the case.

You can not like my ideas. Many don’t. But you could share why you don’t like it.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Not overly savvy on how the wealthy report their income differently than say your average plumber. However, if they are using unrealized gains to get loans on 20 cars and 10 houses then they dont own sh!t. Not much different than the person that is making payments on one house and one car.

The loans aren't on the cars and houses, the loans are on the securities and they won't be paid back in the lifetime of the loan holder and are structured in such a way that their estate will still have the full principle value + interested upon the loan holders death.

If I were king for a day, everyone that works in PE would be required to be kicked in the crotch 10x daily.

Way the world work mans... whether you know it or not if you're middleclass you directly or indirectly a ton of money wrapped up in PE companies.

I wouldn't trade places with any of the wealthy elite. I'm perfectly happy with my own life.

Spend more time focusing on your life, and less time on envy.

Neither would I... but he's what's bizarre about America, middleclass kid works hard --> goes to elite school--> hangs out with elite kids--> sees how they do things, run their business basically has the curtain (to some extent) pulled back.

That kids says to all the folks from his home town..."Guys this system is totally rigged, we are getting hosed"

"STFU you commie"

'merica

The elites do not play by the rest of our rules but they sure have a great spin machine, and it's fully engrained in both parties.

 

[Deleted member 18333]

Way the world work mans... whether you know it or not if you're middleclass you directly or indirectly a ton of money wrapped up in PE companies.

Trust me, I know. You don't work in mining for very long without experiencing the wonderful world of PE.

 

[rogerthat]

The loans aren't on the cars and houses, the loans are on the securities and they won't be paid back in the lifetime of the loan holder and are structured in such a way that their estate will still have the full principle value + interested upon the loan holders death.


Way the world work mans... whether you know it or not if you're middleclass you directly or indirectly a ton of money wrapped up in PE companies.


Neither would I... but he's what's bizarre about America, middleclass kid works hard --> goes to elite school--> hangs out with elite kids--> sees how they do things, run their business basically has the curtain (to some extent) pulled back.

That kids says to all the folks from his home town..."Guys this system is totally rigged, we are getting hosed"

"STFU you commie"

'merica

The elites do not play by the rest of our rules but they sure have a great spin machine, and it's fully engrained in both parties.

Best post of the thread. Spot on. Coming from a “greenie weenie liberal” conservative

 

[SAJ-99]

Opinions vary I suppose but I am neither defending nor bashing wealthy elites. Their existence is a blip on my radar screen. My scorn lies with our elected officials.

Agree, just with the understanding that every dollar of taxes the wealthy avoid is a dollar that will fall to everyday working Americans. I’m not sure exactly how to make the tax code fair (simplifying it would be a start), but I get annoyed by giving tax breaks to corporations so they don’t leave just so you can squeeze employees.

 

[BuzzH]

I love it when you are wrong. And you pretty much talked out of your ass on everything you typed. First, I directly asked if he took a pay cut and grilled him about it so it's not like I wasn't paying attention. Second, shortly after that pay cut I quit the union, took a salary job so my wages were dependent on my performance instead of my co-workers. Best thing I ever did. When the company got the tax break under Trump my merit raise was extra 4% than past years so there's that. I have talked to multiple business owners who under Trump and the tax cuts, felt confident enough to expand, hire, and pay better. I will believe the opinion of personal friends that own businesses than a union worker, since I have been in both shoes.

Actually, you know I'm right and you need to read better and try to understand the whooping you received.

For starters, you quizzed the CEO, who apparently DID NOT take a pay cut like the employees like you did.

Secondly, the Companies corporate tax rate was slashed by 14% and they gave you a paltry 4% pay increase. A "pay increase" that was not actually 4%, did you forget the pay cut you took?

Also, if you'll notice the word "proportional". The company gets a 14% savings in corporate tax cuts and they give you a whopping 4% pay increase. How is that proportional? You think the CEO only took a 4% pay increases as a result of the 14% corporate tax cut? Hilarious.

How many years in a row did you see no pay increases (not withstanding the cut you took)? How much has inflation sucked up that 4% pay increase?

You're easily fooled, the perfect employee.

 

[BigHornRam]

I don’t. But you said posters here had that opinion, but I don’t remember that being the case.

You can not like my ideas. Many don’t. But you could share why you don’t like it.

Dumb ideas have unintended consequences and always lead to more dumb ideas. What's next? A loan tax on real estate? Businesses?

Also I'm not a big fan of the banking industry, but don't care to waste my time promoting this idea just to watch the banking lobby blow it out of the water in 2 minutes. Knock yourself out if you think it's important though.

 

[BuzzH]

honestly, i think it's a danger for our beloved america that we don't look at our elites with as much trepidation as we do our elected officials. they are damn near one in the same after all when you follow the money around.

we are all too focused on R versus D to realize we're getting taken to the cleaners by the people controlling them. call me tin foil hat, but i think we need to be more careful with the way we either don't care about the ultra wealthy and what they do and get away with, or the way we defend the ultra wealthy in all the things they do and get away with.

my main point here is wllms point, the wealthy should not have so many ways to take advantage of the tax code simply because they are wealthy. it has nothing to do with fair share, nothing to do with i'm jealous or angry that they're rich. it's just my principle that the wealthy need to remain in check from the big things to the little things. too much power for any class is a threat to our american experiment.

Correct, Plutocracy defined.

Here's a way to look at wealth in a different way.

Lets say you took at the time Jesus was allegedly born and you took a job where you made $2000/hour working 40 hours a week, 52 weeks a year.

Lets assume you weren't taxed and saved that money, you'd be worth about 8.4 billion today.

There would be 30 Americans more wealthy than you right now.

Another difference is how much more money they can make than you because of some of the things you talked about, tax code, etc.

The poor carpenter working for $2000/hour since his buddy Jesus was born and simply not paying taxes, he hasn't a prayer to build wealth like the 30 above him, pun intended.

 

[TOGIE]

Correct, Plutocracy defined.

Here's a way to look at wealth in a different way.

Lets say you took at the time Jesus was allegedly born and you took a job where you made $2000/hour working 40 hours a week, 52 weeks a year.

Lets assume you weren't taxed and saved that money, you'd be worth about 8.4 billion today.

There would be 30 Americans more wealthy than you right now.

Another difference is how much more money they can make than you because of some of the things you talked about, tax code, etc.

The poor carpenter working for $2000/hour since his buddy Jesus was born and simply not paying taxes, he hasn't a prayer to build wealth like the 30 above him, pun intended.

but wouldn't jesus' buddy at least have gotten some cost of living adjustments along the way?

 

[rwc101]

I just want to break out this bad boy.

 

[BigHornRam]

Wasn't the blood bath I was expecting, but other than O&G, the bulls were no where to be found

 

[Deleted member 18333]

Correct, Plutocracy defined.

Here's a way to look at wealth in a different way.

Lets say you took at the time Jesus was allegedly born and you took a job where you made $2000/hour working 40 hours a week, 52 weeks a year.

Lets assume you weren't taxed and saved that money, you'd be worth about 8.4 billion today.

There would be 30 Americans more wealthy than you right now.

Are you saying those 30 people are a problem? If so, why? What difference do those 30 Americans make in the life of that hard working, well paid, long lived Israelite?

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Dumb ideas have unintended consequences and always lead to more dumb ideas. What's next? A loan tax on real estate? Businesses?

Also I'm not a big fan of the banking industry, but don't care to waste my time promoting this idea just to watch the banking lobby blow it out of the water in 2 minutes. Knock yourself out if you think it's important though.

So if the market crashes and JP Morgan has loaned Bezos 10 Billion against his portfolio which is now underwater the American people get to bail out JP... again, and Bezos didn't pay taxes to begin with.



Bring back Glass-Steagall esk rules on lending. No need to create new taxes.

 

[Deleted member 18333]

Bring back Glass-Steagall esk rules on lending. No need to create new taxes.

This I can agree with whole-heartedly.

 

[npaden]

Was actually a bit encouraged by the way things held up after a bit of a shaky start. At one point all 3 major indexes were up a little.

DINO, GM and WMT were all green for me today. I need to sell a bit to pay down on my land purchase loan since that interest rate is going to be going up again. I held off in June and borrowed more than I wanted to and should have sold some last Wednesday but hindsight is always 20/20. Still sitting on a big realized gain from selling IPI earlier in the year so I do want to harvest some losses but not quite ready to take them yet.

I have a pretty good unrealized loss in my Voyager Cryptocurrency portfolio but with it in bankruptcy and not able to trade anything in my account I don't think I'm going to get to harvest those losses. I still don't understand how my cryptocurrency in my account is affected by their bankruptcy but evidently it is not my cryptocurrency, they were just letting me think it was mine. Maybe one of them will lend it to a billionaire in exchange for some stock options. LOL.