any dirt bikers or off roaders?

[SageGhost]

reply

IDAHO CONSERVATION LEAGUE v. WIGGINS (U.S. DISTRICT COURT – IDAHO) BlueRibbon, the Idaho State Snowmobile Association and the Northwest Access Alliance moved to intervene in this case on November 12, 2004, which involves Endangered Species Act claims affecting state managed lands in the vicinity of Priest Lake in northern Idaho. These lands provide highly-desirable summer and winter recreational access. U.S. Magistrate Mikel Williams presided at a hearing on the Forest Service motion for remand which was held on December 7-9, 2004, in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho. BlueRibbon and the Northwest Access Alliance were represented at the hearing by Paul Turcke. The purpose of the hearing is to determine how vehicle travel on the Coeur d'Alene River Ranger District will be regulated pending remand of the District's 2001 travel plan and amendments. The parties had not finished presenting evidence at the close of the allotted time on December 9th, and the hearing has been continued until January 18, 2005, for an additional day of rebuttal testimony.

KOOTENAI TRIBE, ET AL. v. GLICKMAN (ROADLESS II) (U.S. DISTRICT COURT – IDAHO & 9TH CIRCUIT) No change - proceedings remain stayed in the Idaho "Roadless Rule" cases pending the outcome of the 10th Circuit appeal addressing the validity of the final "Clinton" Roadless Rule. In that appeal the State of Wyoming filed its response brief and associated pleadings on November 8, 2004. BlueRibbon and other organizations filed a "friend of the court" brief in support of Wyoming's position on November 15, 2004. BlueRibbon also submitted comments on November 15, 2004, to the Forest Service's "new" proposed Roadless Rule, which would effectively supplant the Clinton Administration rule at issue in these lawsuits.

some examples.. want more gunner???
Hunters have the Right to choose to ride an atv if they choose and can afford to. hump

 

[SageGhost]

better luck next time..

i give you an A for trying Gunner........

 

[FAIRCHASEBEN]

SageGhost ,
I've got nothing against riding dirt bikes or ATV's in designated off-road areas , and there's plenty of those areas . But when you ride them off-road on public land where they have no business being you become the worst enemy a hunter can have .Take your ATV's and strap on a gun rack and a cooler you get one thing ; a LAZY SLOB HUNTER !
Inconsiderate slob hunters are ruining more and more habitat each year with the attitude of ' why walk when we can ride a machine instead ' ! There's hardly a canyon or mountain left in this state without ATV trails, including my favorite deer area which makes my blood boil when I see them !
The sad part is ; it's easy to walk , my father is 70 years old and he can walk all day in this area , there is no reason to drive machines all over the ****in place unless you're just a FAT LAZY PIECE OF SHIT !!!

The best thing this group could do for hunters is tie their Blue Ribbons into nooses and hang themselves with them .

 

[JoseCuervo]

IDAHO CONSERVATION LEAGUE v. WIGGINS (U.S. DISTRICT COURT – IDAHO) BlueRibbon, the Idaho State Snowmobile Association and the Northwest Access Alliance moved to intervene in this case on November 12, 2004, which involves Endangered Species Act claims affecting state managed lands in the vicinity of Priest Lake in northern Idaho.

KOOTENAI TRIBE, ET AL. v. GLICKMAN (ROADLESS II) (U.S. DISTRICT COURT – IDAHO & 9TH CIRCUIT) No change - proceedings remain stayed in the Idaho "Roadless Rule" cases pending the outcome of the 10th Circuit appeal addressing the validity of the final "Clinton" Roadless Rule.

some examples.. want more gunner???
Hunters have the Right to choose to ride an atv if they choose and can afford to. hump

Hey SageGhost, help me see where these legal proceedings were of any benefit to hunters or game. Are you somehow trying to tell us that we should not want the "Clinton Roadless Rule" because it will ruin all of our hunting, habitat, and opportunity to kill mature animals???

Both of the cases you cited are Anti-Hunting and the kind of actions no hunter would support. Can you explain how they are good for hunters???

 

[Hangar18]

Is the BRC still a wise use member?

YAAAWWWNNN

Blue Ribbers, Fat Assed, Ass Clown etc. etc

Double YAAAWWWWNNNN

 

[SageGhost]

Yea Haw>>>>>>>>>>

any dirt bikers in boise area want to go riding..

 

[JoseCuervo]

[]glad to see i brought out so much emotion...... now lets all get together and file a lawsuit to stop REP MIKE SIMPSON and the idaho conservation league from
making the stanley area, a roadless area.... this boulder white clouds area is a
trophy area for alot of species. and i want my son to be able to drive from
Stanley or Challis over the mt range to mcCall .. I am sure as do many of you.
I like taking country drives during the off season. ]
[
]lets use the tactic that the Sierra Club uses to back fire their agenda.[

How would putting a road from Stanley to McCall improve hunting? Do you really think Simpson is all that is preventing a road from being built thru the middle of the Frank?

Still waiting to see what the Blue Ribbers have done for hunters.... Seems like it is taking you a while....

 

[WH's OutdoorsChick]

I love to Ride Dirt bikes. I thought about getting one, but there is not a lot of places to ride in Washington. I know in the Salmon area when visiting the grandparents we ride all over the place, not sure if it is all legal, but we been riding there since we were Kids!

 

[SageGhost]

reply.

any dirt bikers in boise area want to go riding..

 

[SageGhost]

we should go dirt bike riding sometime elk....i have 2, you can ride one...

 

[JoseCuervo]

SageGoast,

So should we take it that you weren't able to find anything the Blue Ribbers have done that is positive for hunters???? Do you actually consider "road hunting" to be an important part of the sport?

And you might want to consider reading up on Simpson and the Boulder-Whiteclouds. You obviously don't understand what is being proposed. And there are no efforts planned to make Stanley a "roadless area", as there is a highway right thru town (actually two of them intersect there).

And yes, I have driven around the Frank Church. I have also hiked in the Frank. I have kayaked the Middle fork and the Main Salmon. I have rafted both of those rivers. I have flown airplanes into many of the strips in the Frank. And given that the Frank was created by Congress, I doubt you will ever see a road from "Stanley to McCall".

Bottom line, the Blue Ribbers do absolutely nothing for hunting and that is funny if you mistakenly give them $$$$ to ruin hunting in the West.

Are you giving up on finding any of their lawsuits that helped hunters????

 

[1_pointer]

I for one like the Boulder-White Clouds proposal. It sounds like a good framework to allow for protection of some great country and at the same time helping out the local communities. IMO, it seems win-win.

I am for more and more Wilderness areas, given that they meet the requirements, as I feel that they offer the best protection will still allow use/recreation. Hunters are not locked out of these areas as anyone with a pair a boots can hunt there. It just takes a bit more effort than riding an ATV.

As for handicapped hunters, there are many, many more acres open for them to hunt than for those they can't. I feel the regulations do a good job of relaxing many laws to allow them to hunt.

 

[SageGhost]

reply

good luck..

 

[JoseCuervo]

Ahhh.... it sure is easy to spot which one of the guys in Sagegosts' picture has the ATV.... Yeppers, the ones with the Fat-Ass....

Kind of funny how SG started this thread with advocating the wonderful things the Blue Ribbers do, but he was never able to show anything positive for hunters, and even got so far to try and pull the "handicap" card....

SG, you really should investigate the organizations you advocate, and see which ones of them help hunters.

If you are looking for organziations to fund, try Idaho Conservation League, Idaho Rivers United, etc... These are organziations that actually do something positive for hunters (and fishermen).

 

[Hangar18]

If you are looking for organziations to fund, try Idaho Conservation League, Idaho Rivers United, etc... These are organziations that actually do something positive for hunters (and fishermen).

No thanks Gunner. This nation has enough wilderness. The BWC bill is a sham just this side of bribery. It won't pass anyway. The fact that the BWC still qualifies as wilderness is a credit to the management practices being applied currently and in the past. People I know that hunt there say the hunting is fine. Change a few rules, enforce them, and stop locking people out of public land.

Wilderness designation is not cure for all that ills.

I need another nap.

PS - Wheelchairs are allowed in wilderness areas.

 

[1_pointer]

Hangar- Would you mind expanding on your sham comment? Just curious as I've only read a few accounts of the deal and thus far I like it. In regards to your comments on having enough wilderness, what would be the problem then with designating the areas that still have the characteristics of wilderness as wilderness? I'm not seeing the problem?

Sageghost- I may resemble a fat-ass, actually I am, but still prefer to walk in to hunt.

 

[Hangar18]

1_pointer,

A wilderness bill disguised as "Central Idaho Economic Development and Recreation Proposal" doesn't even sound good.

Why should this area be designated wilderness, if management practices are working to keep the area pristine and primative now? Why do we need more federal authority where it is not needed?

First and foremost, there will be prime snowmobiling area taken from us. Snowmobiles by their very nature do not adversely impact natural resources, plain and simple.

There will be parcels of public land, some of it wildlife habitat, turned over to private hands for what will no doubt result in development. The confluence of Valley Creek and the Salmon River being one of them. Others being in the Sawtooth National Recreation Area (SNRA).

Custer County has been told that the designation will be an economic windfall for the area. The problem with this statement is that the Frank Church wilderness is just a few miles north. Stanley still virtually closes its doors in the winter. That equals no "Economic Development" windfall. People go there to see the Sawtooths, just like they go to Jackson Hole to see the Tetons. Most do not go to visit the Frank Church.

Custer County will receive federal land in the deal. In order for them to realize the benefits, they have to improve it to collect property taxes. So now we have the government subsidizing counties just to get them to sign on. Would you put up with that if instead these were new grazing leases? Same thing only in different language.

And if that were not bad enough, something like 26 environmental groups signed a letter opposing it. Not that I will ever agree with environmentalists, but you have to admit it must be bad for them to do this.

Basically, in trying to please everyone, Simpson has made the situation worse.

It will be interesting to read about the changes, but I will still oppose it and all other wilderness proposals. Wilderness designation does nothing more than limit management options.

Idaho has 4 million acres of wilderness already. That's enough IMO.

 

[BuzzH]

Hangar,

Please explain why you feel there is enough wilderness. The view from here is that Congress and the Wilderness Act have done nothing but protect rock and ice....the land that is relatively unproductive for mining, logging, and other extractive resources.

There isnt a whole lot of real productive timber lands, grazing lands, etc. that are designated wilderness.

Also, you dont represent MY views on what is and what is not enough wilderness.

A pretty fair majority favor MORE wilderness, and they will get their way, so deal with it.

 

[BuzzH]

Oh, this is a classic here:

"Snowmobiles do not adversely impact natural resources, plain and simple."

What a frickin' joke that statement is, you cant be serious. Everything we do has an impact.

Whats your definition of "natural resources"?

Ask a lynx or wolverine how much snowmobiles impact them.

 

[Erik in AK]

H18,
while you may be correct in that we do not "need" anymore designated wilderness areas, that train of thought does not address the issue.

Sage
you asserted that the BRC and others who advocate unrestricted access for ATVs helps hunters. I happen to disagree with you. ATV's are wreaking havoc with hunting, primarily in western states. It all boils down to habitat degredation. ATV's can and do cause damage in an instant that takes years to recover from. This isn't true because I say so, its just true. The problem with ATV use is there is no practical means of weeding out the "abusers". All it takes is one guy to leave the road or trail and take off across formerly untracked sagebrush country. This guys leaves in his wake the appearance of a trail that won't disappear for years. Others will see where that "pioneer" left the road and follow suit assuming there is a trail, and soon enough there will be. Eventually the road hunters in their pickem-up trucks follow the ATV's. It's a plain, simple and unfortunately ugly fact of ATVs that in every single western National Forest, BLM allotment and WMA where they are allowed, there is a growing system of illegal trails.

Another truth to ATV's is that by increasing access to formerly difficult-to-reach spots their use results in a drop in game populations. Sure hunting is great in that back canyon for the first few years and then it tapers off--the animals not killed outright are displaced by the increased human presence which in turn prompts the ATV crowd to explore further which in turn creates more trails and so on and so on. All this trail making destroys habitat. It may not seem like much, but all those miles of tire tracks destroyed browse plants that used to grow there. Roughly every 4 miles of ATV trail equals 1 acre of wrecked habitat.

By my calculations--If you assume that the average ATV tire leaves a track trail a foot wide then every mile of ATV trail equals 10,560 square feet of damage, or roughly 1/4 acre. In the sage country you nicknamed yourself after, that adds up to hundreds (maybe thousands) of acres of winter range that can no longer support species you like to hunt.

Now before you site the elaborate trail systems in the upper midwest or the Ozarks as justification for tracking up the west please remember that those places get lots of rain in a typical year and do in fact recover faster. It takes more acreage per animal to support game populations in the semi-arid high plains. Also, hunters in those states typically hunt whitetails from treestands. They ride their ATV's along trails or old logging roads or utility right of ways cut through the big woods decades ago and then they walk the final hundred or so yards to their stands.

Its out west where the vistas are long and the country is open that ATV's cause the most harm. Lazy people go places on ATV's that they shouldn't simply because they can. There are ways other than vehicles to gain access to good hunting.