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Another nail in the coffin

Calif. Hunter

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Joined
Dec 13, 2000
Messages
5,193
Location
Apple Valley, CA, USA
of wild salmon?

An administration roadmap to salmon extinction - Commentary

By Bruce Babbitt, Special to the Los Angeles Times (also the
Oregonian)
January 4, 2005

Wild salmon are drifting toward extinction in the northern Rocky
Mountains.
Last fall the Bush administration delivered a decision that will be the
death blow, if it stands: four obsolete dams on the Snake River in
Eastern
Washington will not be dismantled.

The Snake River dams were conceived on a field of industrial dreams.
The
idea took root in the 1960s, when local boosters persuaded Congress to
authorize a huge project to transform Lewiston, Idaho, 400 miles from
the
Pacific, into a seaport.

The Army Corps of Engineers then proceeded to subdue 140 miles of the
wild
Snake, remaking it into a slack-water barge channel.

The dream soon turned into a nightmare for people and towns that depend
on
wild salmon. The fish began disappearing from the lakes and rivers
upstream
from the dams.

Prized chinook runs vanished throughout central Idaho. Fisheries and
fishing jobs in the Northwest and as far away as Alaska, tribal
fisheries
included, declined with them.

Meanwhile, the promised inland seaport boom did not arrive. The volume
of
barge shipments never reached expectations, in part because many
farmers in
the region still found it cheaper to ship by rail to the deep-water
port at
Tacoma.

That didn't deter the corps, which continues to spend $36 million a
year to
operate and maintain the four Snake River dams, their locks and the
navigation channel.

Yet even at this late date there still is a chance to save the salmon.
The
corps, the farmers and the fishermen could cooperate to get the wheat
off
the river and onto railroads where it belongs.
The track is in place. The mainlines of the Burlington Northern and the
Union Pacific run right through this wheat country and then west to
Washington ports at Pasco, Vancouver and Tacoma, and to Portland.

The state of Washington just purchased the short lines that feed the
mainlines. This system already ships a lot of local wheat, and, with
modest
further investment, the Burlington Northern says it will be ready and
willing to handle what is now shipped by river.

Farmers near the river who use the channel to transport grain are the
main
voice for keeping the dams, because they save 3 to 7 cents per bushel
compared with shipping by rail. What stands between waters alive with
salmon and the silent expanses of extinction is that 3 to 7 cents per
bushel.

All of this cries out for a common-sense solution that takes all sides
into
account. There is one that has yet to be considered: Simply shut down
the
barge traffic, take out the dams and then dedicate a small part of the
annual $36 million that would be saved to making up the shipping
differential with the farmers.

In contrast, the administration's plan to keep the dams and "save" the
salmon has an estimated total cost of $6 billion over the next 10
years.
Much of that would go to various schemes to barge, truck, pipe and
steer
migrating salmon around the dams.

Scientists have repeatedly concluded these proposals offer little hope
of
restoring the wild salmon to fishable abundance.

Neither science nor logic -- nor economic theory -- supports the
administration's plan. The dams could be dismantled, the farmers who
ship
on the river compensated and the relatively small amount of electricity
the
dams generate replaced, for about one-third of the $6 billion. A
restored
fishery would be worth at least $1 billion a year to Pacific Northwest
states.

The administration's plan is a very expensive road map to salmon
extinction. It's time to admit a mistake and set about fixing it -- for
the
sake of fishermen, farmers, Native Americans, the salmon, the inland
Pacific Northwest ecosystem -- and the taxpayers.


2005, Los Angeles
Times
Bruce Babbitt was secretary of the Interior from 1993 to 2001. He is a
former governor and attorney general of Arizona.
 
Comments from my brother, a wildlife biologist, on the above article -

Here's a well-informed commentary on the 4 Snake River Dams above
Tri-Cities. However, Babbitt fails to mention that the barges benefit
only
4 corporate farms and are owned by a corporation largely owned by those
same 4 farm families (who, coincidently, are big Bush campaign
contributors). The majority of farmers find rail (and trucks) are
cheaper
means to ship wheat. $36 million to subsidize 4 sets of campaign
donors==can we say "rural welfare"??
 
So you are saying that the dams eliminated the wild salmon but it is not too late to save the runs if you get rid of the dams. I didn't know salmon could survive for forty years. Guess there are no salmon left on the Snake or it's tributaries now, or are there?
 
Cali,

Is it possible that your brother is a tad bit biased?

Where in the article does it mention the cost to "take out the dams"?

Where does it discuse the negative enviromental impacts of removing the dams?

How do we replace the "small amount of electricity" these dams produce?

How about the other business that rely on barge traffic? No mention of them. In the early 90s I helped build a plant that off loaded and stored fertilizer that was barged in to Central Ferry. There are a number of business like this one that would be whiped out. Not "just 4 corperate farmers" that donate to Bush.

What about the guy writing the article? No bias there either?

Theres a whole lot more to the issue than this biased article reports on. Maybe Babbit should look into Dan Blathers soon to open position.
 
I posted the article to get more info, as I have not made this an area of interest and have not paid that much attention to it. The article IS plainly labeled as "Commentary," which means "opinion," which naturally means it will support one position and is not a scholarly review of the facts.


Ringer - I am not saying anything - the author is.
 
Cali,

Funny how your brother who is a biologist finds this "commentary" "well informed". That would lead me to believe much of his "research" is opinion based and biased, and not worth the paper it's written on. And he didn't miss chance to bash Bush on it either. Common attitude of todays gummint worker.

Can we say Welfare Gummint worker.
 
Why does the name Bruce Babbitt sound familiar....i need to check on that. Oh, now I remember (after refreshing memory with an internet search). He was a Klinton cronie. Yep, his research would not be biased in any way against the Bush administration. I am sure that there may be something that could be done, but as I do not know all of the details, I cannot comment on the solution. But I take what he said with a grain of salt. Here is an interesting site on who he is. I can see how I should be wary about what he says. http://www.nationalcenter.org/dos32babbitt.html
 
BHR & Wyomingtim- I don't understand. You both claim to love to hunt and fish but care nothing about the means to protect the hunting and fishing. You support Bush, not on his policies to protect your rights, not to protect the environment, not to decrease the national deficit... I am wondering why you supported Bush. To protect us from that evil Sadam, who didn't have a chance in hell of getting weapons of mass destruction, just threatened to.

I am biased toward the environment that enables me to hunt and fish. It also enables future generations to do so. If the dams were gone, it would make sense that salmon could be re-introduced. I would take the word of a biologist that is studying this as opposed to you two, who (at best) know bucket biology.
 
In the scientific world, there is little room for opinion. As a biologist, I am sure that my brother is biased in favor of wildlife and I know, from very many emails, how he feels about Bush. "Funny how" just about every biologist feels the same way about the salmon, though, and what needs to be done.

Personally, I think that Bush is terrible on the environment, in general. I voted for him, but not because of his stellar environmental achievements. Someday, we may have a President who is at least close to perfect, but I'm not holding my breath.
 
UH Matt,

The salmon don't need to be reintroduced. Their numbers are improving every year, and you can buy a fishing license and fish for them if you would like this spring in Idaho. How come the enviros never bring up the salmon netting that goes on as a factor in all this?

But if you think that removing these dams will bring back the salmon, maybe you can put your money where your mouth is and help them out. You heat your home with electricity. These dams only produce enough electricity to power 600,000 homes. Now if you and 599,999 like minded home owners would disconect your power, we could move forward with this project. Let me know when you get enough people signed on to this and then I will give you my blessing. Sounds like there are a lot of wildlife biologist out there to get you on to a good start.
 
Man! Go up to Oregon and Idaho and check out the record salmon returns on the system then make your opinions known. The fish have a five year cycle and the dams were built 40 years ago so how can you democraps keep blaming Dubya for all the worlds problems? I been salmon fishing for 30 years in the area and you guys are just passing this propoganda like shit through a goose.
 
Calif. hunter, Glad to see you're taking some interest in this and I hope your brother can provide some insight. There's probably no one who's ever been more idiotic on this subject than BHR, so don't pay him any attention. He has completely ignored thousands of paragraphs we've copied, written, and posted here on the subject and he has this real weird hangup about electricity. No sense trying to educate him, it's a waste of time. As for the others, you can see how much they care about the salmon. |oo They disagree with hundreds of the top biologists and scientists in the country about the problem and solution. Complete ignorance on display! :rolleyes:
 
BHR- I have a better Idea. We can create an efficient dam that could generate the same electricity. I think a great area would be just above Lolo. We could then plant a bunch more pike, have plenty of irrigation for the farmers and maybe flood out a few transplants to the area. Maybe the pike could get rid of a few of the suckers (at least the ones in the water). ;)
 
Good idea Matt,

I'd probably have water front property if they'ed build the dam high enough. And every time the hair hats in Missoula get unruley, we could open the gates for couple hours.
 
BHR- Hair hats? I tend to be more worried about the transplants to the area, they seem to be the biggest problem.
 
Surely, there's not actually any one here who truly believes they are going to demolish millions of dollars worth of dams because of a few fish! Everyone please get a clue! We have what we have. Anyone who thinks they would actually do that isn't thinking. The salmon are cool, and they seem to still be there. I don't understand whining about something that is so not going to happen. I'll be on the Clearwater next spring catching those salmon dam, or not!
 
sra, surely you don't think breaching the dams means they're going to demolish them! :rolleyes: Do you know so little about the issue that you actually think that's what the pro-salmon people want? Why don't you study up on the topic enough to understand what the breaching proposal entails before you try posting about it? People like you just add to the confusion.
 
BigHornRam said:
UH Matt,

The salmon don't need to be reintroduced. Their numbers are improving every year, and you can buy a fishing license and fish for them if you would like this spring in Idaho.

Paul,

Just how stupid are you??? Could you please let me know which river/creeks that Idaho will have an open season on wild salmon this year?

And just so you don't ever make the same stupid comments again, there are 1000's of miles of Idaho water that needs salmon "re-introduced". You ever hear of the Weiser drainage, or the Payette drainages, or the Boise Drainages? or the Owyhee drainages???


Oh, and sRA,
The dams WILL be breached, and as a Taxpayer to the US Gov't, you should hope they are breached SOONER than later...
|oo
You aren't very bright are you....?
 
Ever notice how many posts the rude little fudgepackers have? No way can you study all these tree hugger issues and post that many times and still have a job. I think these guys are gubmint freeloaders takin' welfare checks and are worried that Dubya will get rid of their parasitical lifestyle. Same guy that calls Paul a not very bright idiot calls me an old drunk retard when he is outed as a bullshitter. I will lay $1000 on the table right now that those dams will still be operating 20 years from now. Just cause you want it to happen don't mean it will.
 
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