American prairie. What's the issue?

[rogerthat]

Ranching isn't easy and it's only getting harder, but many of the ranchers I know are actively making decisions that'll make their lives harder not easier. Why waste that little bit of profit on advertising against a non-profit? The co-op idea is great. Start your own brand of beef. Montana beef. Try a CSA-type program. Everyone buys a share of the farm/ranch products. You could add value to it by allowing every share holder access to hunt 3 days a year, or something, or maybe not even hunting, just recreational access. I have two high school friends that have bought into the ranching business. Both are making money and growing, and while it's been a while since we had beers, they both attributed their success to thinking outside the box. There are literally millions of Americans that have too much money and are just looking for ways to spend it. Connect with them the same way the AP connects with people thousands of miles away. Give them a unique product to spend their money on, make them feel good about doing so.

All great ideas however in the past a lot of ranchers made it through the tough times by sticking to a routine that worked. Thinking outside the box was a huge risk that could cost you the ranch. A lot of them have been doing the same thing for 40 years plus…change is hard. Ranch land has been skyrocketing compared to ranch income for a long time now. I don’t see that changing.

 

[Ben Lamb]

All great ideas however in the past a lot of ranchers made it through the tough times by sticking to a routine that worked. Thinking outside the box was a huge risk that could cost you the ranch. A lot of them have been doing the same thing for 40 years plus…change is hard. Ranch land has been skyrocketing compared to ranch income for a long time now. I don’t see that changing.

Added to that is loss of range from drought, water depletion and insect infestation as well as noxious weeds.

Land condition is downgrading while costs are increasing. This is exactly why folks are pushing for something like the legacy trust this session.

 

[Irrelevant]

All great ideas however in the past a lot of ranchers made it through the tough times by sticking to a routine that worked. Thinking outside the box was a huge risk that could cost you the ranch. A lot of them have been doing the same thing for 40 years plus…change is hard. Ranch land has been skyrocketing compared to ranch income for a long time now. I don’t see that changing.

You can either take a gamble and maybe lose it or not and definitely lose it eventually. That's the same risks orchardist are running into here. The guys vacationing in mexico are taking risks, following the market trends, adapting to regulations, and vertically integrating. I mean, prime orchard land is going to 350k an acre. When I asked a very successful orchardist I was helping with some water right changes why he didn't convert it to homes, he said, if you know what you're doing apples always pay more in the long run. He'd gone to varieties, that were 1) trendy or 2) early to market.

 

[brocksw]

The American Prairie, so anti-hunting they hire hunters.

 

[Irrelevant]

The American Prairie, so anti-hunting they hire hunters.
View attachment 256809

Probably has one of those commie college degrees too!

 

[BuzzH]

And we wonder why the hunting community is pegged as anti-rancher.

So are the "don't buffalo me" " save the cowboy" signs on every other fence post in the breaks a show of good faith?

Or the dozens of articles with landowners degrading the AP, is that helping to work toward a common goal?

Let's just be honest, the outfitters and Ag community are not happy they can't just roll the public like they have in the past.

They don't like the public accessing our public lands. They don't like they can't keep people off public land because of GPS technology. They dont like that hunters are organized, hiring lobbyists, and having influence on public land policy and wildlife policy.

I don't think anyone is claiming all landowners are bad or all outfitters are bad, but to deny there are members of both that are pretty self serving is a stretch.

Do agree working within is a good idea.

 

[Irrelevant]

I don't think anyone is claiming all landowners are bad or all outfitters are bad, but to deny there are members of both that are pretty self serving is a stretch.

To that point, everyone on HT respects @antlerradar

He's one of the few large land owners that continually impresses me with his knowledge of wildlife, the landscape, and the interplay between the two. And he doesn't seem to hate the public or our interests.

 

[SAJ-99]

The administration that would never get their vote is actively trying to help the small-ag producers. The irony runs deep. It seems everything in this country is labor vs. capital, even when the participants don't recognize it.

For TLDR crowd...
Four large meat-packing companies control 85 percent of the beef market. In poultry, the top four processing firms control 54 percent of the market. And in pork, the top four processing firms control about 70 percent of the market. The meatpackers and processors buy from farmers and sell to retailers like grocery stores, making them a key bottleneck in the food supply chain.

FACT SHEET: The Biden-Harris Action Plan for a Fairer, More Competitive, and More Resilient Meat and Poultry Supply Chain | The White House

In July, President Biden signed an Executive Order on Promoting Competition in the American Economy to create a fairer, more resilient, and more dynamic

www.whitehouse.gov

 

[bullbugle307]

Cole Mannix is doing some really cool stuff with local beef around Helena.

Old Salt Co-op

Old Salt Co-op, More Than a Meat Company, located in Helena, Montana. Old Salt processing plant, butchery, retail store & restaurants provide premium, hormone-free, antibiotic-free, farm-to-table, 100% grass-fed and finished fresh and cured beef, lamb, & pork. Buy a meat bundle! Order online...

www.oldsaltco-op.com

The biggest issue with selling direct to the consumer is the FDA and the inability to handle slaughter at a smaller scale as well as the meatpacker stranglehold on the industry, as I understand it.

Economic scale is needed here - school districts, department of corrections, Air Force bases, etc could all be scaled customers that make the difference between opening a butcher shop on mainstreet and selling enough beef to make a profit.

A buddy out of Hysham was trying to go this route with mixed success. Best beef I've ever had too.

My wife and I, and her family have had some serious conversations about trying to go this route with their ranch in the future after her uncle can’t do it anymore. There’s only us and one other couple in the family that are our age that would even consider the risk of giving up what we have, which is comfortable, to take on the risk.

Thankfully, we know the land won’t get sold, but there are significant hurdles, as others have mentioned, to going to a more direct to consumer route.

 

[Southern Elk]

It’s a shame that beef producers get such a small percentage of the price that we pay in grocery stores. A steer headed to the feedlot is bringing about $1.50 per pound. The average price of hamburger meat is $4.81 cents per pound and the average price of ribeyes is over $15.00 per pound.

 

[Ben Lamb]

So are the "don't buffalo me" " save the cowboy" signs on every other fence post in the breaks a show of good faith?

Or the dozens of articles with landowners degrading the AP, is that helping to work toward a common goal?

Let's just be honest, the outfitters and Ag community are not happy they can't just roll the public like they have in the past.

They don't like the public accessing our public lands. They don't like they can't keep people off public land because of GPS technology. They dont like that hunters are organized, hiring lobbyists, and having influence on public land policy and wildlife policy.

I don't think anyone is claiming all landowners are bad or all outfitters are bad, but to deny there are members of both that are pretty self serving is a stretch.

Do agree working within is a good idea.

Buzz, I love you like a brother that used to give me swirlies then decided that he liked me, but I still have some resentment and unresolved anger towards, but a brother none-the-less.

Your first sentence belies your first two.

Perception is reality, and that's just reinforced by this thread.

Signed, one of the lobbyists who get hired to represent sportsmen in legislatures.

 

[Irrelevant]

It’s a shame that beef producers get such a small percentage of the price that we pay in grocery stores. A steer headed to the feedlot is bringing about $1.50 per pound. The average price of hamburger meat is $4.81 cents per pound and the average price of ribeyes is over $15.00 per pound.

With the current system there's a small town of people all taking profit between those two end points.

 

[brocksw]

Buzz, I love you like a brother that used to give me swirlies then decided that he liked me, but I still have some resentment and unresolved anger towards, but a brother none-the-less.

Your first sentence belies your first two.

Perception is reality, and that's just reinforced by this thread.

Signed, one of the lobbyists who get hired to represent sportsmen in legislatures.

Would that perception change if we were just praising or supporting the AP without all the "rancher bashing"? Or is sportsmen's avid support of the AP enough to feed that perception regardless?

 

[Ben Lamb]

Would that perception change if we were just praising or supporting the AP without all the "rancher bashing"? Or is sportsmen's avid support of the AP enough to feed that perception regardless?

Try it without the bashing and see how it goes.

"I really like what AP is doing relative to access and I've been able to hunt places that were previously unavailable due to land ownership."

That's a lot more positive than

"At least I can hunt it now that the SOB that owned previously sold to the evil AP."

The language we use puts people on defense, rather than opens their eyes to our perceptions. While Buzz is correct that the other side does it do, until one side tries to bring a little bit more grace to the discussion, nobody will see a need to work together.

Kindness is a weapon, not a weakness.

 

[Southern Elk]

With the current system there's a small town of people all taking profit between those two end points.

And the growers are getting the short end of the stick.

 

[brocksw]

Kindness is a weapon, not a weakness.

Gol' dang it

 

[Straight Arrow]

Kindness is a weapon, not a weakness.

Likewise kind firmness. When false statements and skewed logic are spewed, firmness is called for, but yes, tempered with respectful kindness.
However, he who suffers fools gladly ... then becomes one.

 

[406dn]

I try not to buy into conspiracy theories. I would doubt meat packers are trying to put livestock producers out of business. Seriously, they are out of business themselves if there is not a good supply of livestock.

One of the inherent problems with production agriculture is the cost of freight. A meatpacker is not going to pay freight to get a steer from Montana, when the plant is in Nebraska and they get good numbers of cattle locally. The cost of freight is part of the cost of production for the rancher or farmer. When you are distant from your market, the freight comes out of your pocket.

It is a problem for both livestock and grain producers. Given the price of diesel, moving a truckload of cattle a thousand miles is not a trivial cost.

As Randy mentioned earlier, it is another squeeze on family ranchers/farmers. I don't think it is a nefarious plot, but it does hurt either way.

 

[mtmuley]

Likewise kind firmness. When false statements and skewed logic are spewed, firmness is called for, but yes, tempered with respectful kindness.
However, he who suffers fools gladly ... then becomes one.

Some just can't stop. mtmuley

 

[Southern Elk]

My position is:

At least the previous owners sold to AP and not some billionaire who will never let people like me set foot on it.

That's a lot more positive than

"At least I can hunt it now that the SOB that owned previously sold to the evil AP."