Aging mule deer bucks!

[ImBillT]

I'd say younger, maybe 4.5? Antlers don't look massive enough or knarly enough, if that is such a thing.

He does not have a lot of mass, but the light coloration from a lack resinous trees to rub makes him look thinner than he is. He has more mass than a darker antlered deer that at least one poster in the thread thought had nice mass. However, it’s not as much that the other deer has nice mass, as it is that the other deer had less mass than he looked like. Actually it’s probably a combination of the two.

Still, I agree, he does not have the mass that tends to point me toward maturity.

That said, you and I are touching on one of the reasons I’ve made the thread. I know what these deer were aged at by a bio according to tooth wear, some of them from the same areas, and either mass measurements are not a good indicator of age, or tooth wear is not a good indicator of age.

 

[ImBillT]

My experience has been in the field biologist tooth wear aging has been very inaccurate. I live in Montana so lab aging them is very accurate. The bios don’t have a great track record and that’s not just fwp bios. If they were able to view/study the boiled out jaw their accuracy would increase but deer aged at check stations are typically not accurate

I agree, HOWEVER, I have the jaws, and after examining quite a few internet charts, the bios have done an excellent job at matching the deer to the age the charts would suggest.

I have very little confidence in tooth wear aging, but I’m uncertain about how accurate Matson Labs is going to be. These are all southern-ish deer. My hope is that Matson will either come consistently fairly close to the tooth wear ages, or consistently closer to my thoughts about the deer before looking at the tooth wear. My fear is that results will be haphazard all around. That will leave me with only one conclusion. Nobody knows anything about how old a deer is whether it’s alive or dead. Lol.

 

[rogerthat]

I agree, HOWEVER, I have the jaws, and after examining quite a few internet charts, the bios have done an excellent job at matching the deer to the age the charts would suggest.

I have very little confidence in tooth wear aging, but I’m uncertain about how accurate Matson Labs is going to be. These are all southern-ish deer.

Internet charts will lead you astray. You need a jaw board with jaws of every age class all taken in the local area. Even then you will miss some by a year. I boil out all the jaws to the teeth sent in to Matsons. If you get a large enough data set only then will you be accurate on tooth wear aging. And that is easiest done with the jaws boiled out. I have gotten dang good but this has been over 20 years of collecting jaws. We have a wide habitat type in eastern montana. Deer that live their lives on the hay fields have much different tooth wear than deer that live in the pine trees. Those little things will mess you up

 

[rogerthat]

He does not have a lot of mass, but the light coloration from a lack resinous trees to rub makes him look thinner than he is. He has more mass than a darker antlered deer that at least one poster in the thread thought had nice mass. However, it’s not as much that the other deer has nice mass, as it is that the other deer had less mass than he looked like. Actually it’s probably a combination of the two.

Still, I agree, he does not have the mass that tends to point me toward maturity.

That said, you and I are touching on one of the reasons I’ve made the thread. I know what these deer were aged at by a bio according to tooth wear, some of them from the same areas, and either mass measurements are not a good indicator of age, or tooth wear is not a good indicator of age.

Genetics play into the mass of antlers and are not necessarily by itself an indicator of age.

 

[Valley1320]

H

Deer 5

5.5... its so hard to say I wish I had another angle of his face. But has a more mature looking face. Honestly so hard to tell and go by characteristics.. he might be 4.5 back forks seem a lil weak, but that could be because didn't have the right genetics or feed and so on instead of being a age factor. He doesn't appear to be a real old deer tho

 

[ImBillT]

H

5.5... its so hard to say I wish I had another angle of his face. But has a more mature looking face. Honestly so hard to tell and go by characteristics.. he might be 4.5 back forks seem a lil weak, but that could be because didn't have the right genetics or feed and so on instead of being a age factor. He doesn't appear to be a real old deer tho

The weak back forks are likely a trait that is common in the area. I killed another deer about 20mi away that was definitely older than deer 5, and had similar antler configuration, especially the weak back forks. The older deer had more mass a bigger body, and lot more of a Roman nose. I don’t think deer 5 is terribly old either, but I would bet there are a number of deer in the area that have weak back forks for their whole lives.

 

[ImBillT]

Deer 6

before I got better at pictures.

 

[Valley1320]

Deer 6

before I got better at pictures.

3.5 or maybe 4.5

 

[DFS]

Deer 6

before I got better at pictures.

Looks 2.5 to me. Small body young face. It’s easy to look at a dead deer and tell how old they are.

 

[The Hedgehog]

I have cementum data on these but will have to dig out, any guesses.

 

[The Hedgehog]

 

[ImBillT]

^^^ older than mine.

8.5-11.5? I would guess the top one to be the younger of the two by the body, but the older of the two by the jaw. Second jaw doesn’t necessarily look 8.5, but I’ll stick to that for the young end of my guess. My guess is that both will fall somewhere in that range. It’s a very loose guess in which I have very little confidence.

I should probably revise down those two numbers to 7.5-10.5. Perhaps lower. Both deer look quite healthier for 11.5 to be in the equation. That said, they both have very broad faces that I feel like only comes with quite a bit of age.

 

[npaden]

I think it is easier to judge them on the hoof than in a trophy picture. I’m looking for things like a sway back, large neck (or loose skin on the neck if it is after the rut or real early).

One other thing to look for is a deep chest where the front shoulder looks like it is bigger than the hind quarters.

If just looking at antlers I think mass and stickers or bumps on the brow tines tend to indicate older deer.


This deer is old. Very early in the year so not a big neck but I have history with this deer and think he is at least 6 or 7 years old or maybe even older.

This is the same deer as above 2 years earlier. I think he was 4 or maybe 5 in this picture.

Pretty sure this one is pretty old. Not the biggest antlers but he was a hoss body wise. Front end seems bigger than the back end.



The angle probably makes this one seem like he has a bigger chest than he really did but for sure a mature buck. My guess on him would be 4 or 5.

Last one. This was from a long time ago before the season was open here. No doubt this guy was mature. His neck just merges right into his chest and his front is bigger than his back end.

No pictures of any of these on the ground to verify ages based on teeth being sent to a lab though. Either my neighbor shot them or they didn’t come onto my property during daylight hours during the open season.

 

[Valley1320]

I have cementum data on these but will have to dig out, any guesses.
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7.5

 

[Valley1320]

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8.5 or 9.5

 

[ImBillT]

I think it is easier to judge them on the hoof than in a trophy picture. I’m looking for things like a sway back, large neck (or loose skin on the neck if it is after the rut or real early).

One other thing to look for is a deep chest where the front shoulder looks like it is bigger than the hind quarters.

If just looking at antlers I think mass and stickers or bumps on the brow tines tend to indicate older deer.

View attachment 261533
This deer is old. Very early in the year so not a big neck but I have history with this deer and think he is at least 6 or 7 years old or maybe even older.
View attachment 261534
This is the same deer as above 2 years earlier. I think he was 4 or maybe 5 in this picture.
View attachment 261536
Pretty sure this one is pretty old. Not the biggest antlers but he was a hoss body wise. Front end seems bigger than the back end.


View attachment 261535
The angle probably makes this one seem like he has a bigger chest than he really did but for sure a mature buck. My guess on him would be 4 or 5.
View attachment 261537
Last one. This was from a long time ago before the season was open here. No doubt this guy was mature. His neck just merges right into his chest and his front is bigger than his back end.

No pictures of any of these on the ground to verify ages based on teeth being sent to a lab though. Either my neighbor shot them or they didn’t come onto my property during daylight hours during the open season.

I may be way off, but I think the top deer is past 6-7. I would guess 9+. That said, I’ve never killed anything that got aged very old, so that’s a realm in which I’m not terribly familiar when it comes to hands on experience. The pic from two years prior is right in that range of I think is hardest to judge. Somewhere near prime. Could last quite a few years.

I have very little confidence in any of my guesses. I saw my deer on the hoof, and pretty much every time had a different opinion once they were on the ground, and neither opinion matched the tooth wear info. I think the one thing I can say with confidence is that I don’t have a clue.

 

[DFS]

3 point is 10.5 4 point is 7.5. Plus or minus 5.

 

[SwaggyD]

5

 

[rogerthat]

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The jaw pictures are by far the best for me to guess age. If I had the jaws and compared them to my jaw board I would bet I would be within a year. Both shooters and mature deer. Just going off the pictures and past experience since I have all my jaws at work your sons deer is older 7.5 years old and your deer is 6.5 years old.

 

[Valley1320]

Hopefully @ImBill dont mind if i play here to. So take a guess guys ive asked elsewhere but heres some more pics.