I'm a newbie to muzzleloading this yr. I drew a cow elk muzzleloader tag. My future son in law had a muzzleloader that sat in his closet for ~ 7 or 8 yrs that he won @ a RMEF Banquet. Sat in his closet and had never been shot- A T/C Encore Magnum 50X209. Anyway I shot it a few times w/ the supplied open sights(have to shoot open sights in NV). It definitely took some adjusting in that I have been a rifle hunter for 45 yrs w/ a scope. Anyway I ran across this article on gohunt.com about increasing the accuracy of your open sighted muzzleloader by putting on a rear peep and a front globe w/ crosshairs. Well I went to the range today and for the life of me I couldn't quite figure out how to raise the rear peep sight properly. I'm shooting a 290gr Barnes T-EZ w/ 100 gr of Blackhorn 209. At 50 measly yds I'd put the crosshairs right on the bull and was frickin 5" low. Started "dinking" w/ the Williams rear peep and couldn't figure out if sliding it back raised it or lowered it. Mind you there were 30 mile/hr winds but come on that shouldn't make a difference on height. Am I just an idiot or what? Can somebody "spoon feed" me some directions on how to adjust the rear peep properly. I'm guessing I'm missing something super simple. The rear peep is a Williams WGRS for thr T/C Encore. Thanks.
Adjusting a Williams WGRS peep sight
- Thread starter Itsdrdits
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van franke
Active member
You will have to raise the rear sight as high as you can. Even then I bet it'll shoot low at 100 yards. Williams didn't build there peep sights with enough vertical elevation for longer barreled muzzleloaders. The only one I have got them to work on is a 24" cva wolf. Ive heard some guys are having luck with this sight. http://www.eabco.com/MuzzleLoader02 They are an integrated peep sight in a scope rail and suppose to have more vertical adjustment. Might be able to use the williams if you can find a really short front sight. Hope that helps.
Thank you Van very much for the advice. I'll have to admit I could get the gun on paper last weekend when I had the Williams peep and the factory "glow sight" on the front. But after reading that gohunt. Com article it sounded intriguing. I "took the bait" and ordered the recommended Marble ramp and Lyman globe. After I put the front sight on and looked through the peep I was thinking this is gonna be a great improvement however I'm thinking either put the original fiber optic front sight back on Or try your advice and try the eabco ramp you recommended. I know each muzzleloader loader has it's favorite load but does the bullet & powder charge sound like a good start? Oh, I'm using Winchester 209 shotgun primers.
van franke
Active member
Sounds like a good start I run 295 power belts with 100gr of 777. Its frustrating til you find a sight combination that works. Williams is no help either they will blame TC and just the opposite if you call TC. Hope it works.
blueridge
Well-known member
I am having the opposite problem of the OP. With the rear peep all the way down the ramp, I am still shooting a foot high.
Williams Western Precision MZ Site Set. CVA Optima 2. Rear peep on rear most scope hole. 340gr Hornady Bore Driver. 120gr Blackhorn 209.
Anyone else run into this issue and found a solution?
Williams Western Precision MZ Site Set. CVA Optima 2. Rear peep on rear most scope hole. 340gr Hornady Bore Driver. 120gr Blackhorn 209.
Anyone else run into this issue and found a solution?
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blueridge
Well-known member
Shim the front?
Lower the charge?
Lower the charge?
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cgasner1
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I don’t have pictures any more but when I did this to a couple of them I took them to my smith and had him mill the front sight down and mount it to the barrel it was before these sights where a thing and a guy had to ping the old sights into a dove tail
popeyoung12
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Great thread, just bought the Williams for western states. Shoot 80 guns. Of 209, 295 gr. Copper.
shannerdrake
Well-known member
Jus
You can shim the front sight pretty easily. I had to shim my rear sight. A beer can is actually a pretty good starting thickness and the shape is already pretty close to what you need. I had to add two shims to my buddy’s to get it right.
Other option, call Williams. Their customer service is awesome. Tell them your setup, how high you are at a 100 and order a replacement front sight. I actually moved away from the globe front sight and replaced it with a globeless version and it’s much brighter.
Sorry, had to reread your post and edit.
You can shim the front sight pretty easily. I had to shim my rear sight. A beer can is actually a pretty good starting thickness and the shape is already pretty close to what you need. I had to add two shims to my buddy’s to get it right.
Other option, call Williams. Their customer service is awesome. Tell them your setup, how high you are at a 100 and order a replacement front sight. I actually moved away from the globe front sight and replaced it with a globeless version and it’s much brighter.
brownbear932008
Well-known member
Think I placed two shims under my front sght.
p_ham
Well-known member
Get one of these elevated peeps. Chef's kiss.
Rear Peep Sight Elevation Modification | eBay
Replaces windage part ofWilliams and E. A. Brown style peep sights. Threaded for original peep sightaperture. Works well withWilliams Western Precision Muzzleloader Front Sight.
www.ebay.com
You'll need a taller front sight. Here's a calculator that'll get you where to need to be.
Sight Correction Calculator
Dillon Precision: Reloaders, Reloading Equipment, Bullet Reloading, Bullet Reloaders
www.dillonprecision.com
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cgasner1
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blueridge
Well-known member
Their rep was a little gruff, but competent. Sending me a lower rear sight at no charge.
Now the question: since they know this is an issue, how can they keep selling it and say it works with all these different makes (Knight, T/C, CVA)?
Anyway, hopefully the new rear will fix it, if not I will shim the front. Thanks for the calculator @p_ham . Now I just need to understand the parameters asked for.
p_ham
Well-known member
Distance from centerline: How far from aim point is bullet impactTheir rep was a little gruff, but competent. Sending me a lower rear sight at no charge.
Now the question: since they know this is an issue, how can they keep selling it and say it works with all these different makes (Knight, T/C, CVA)?
Anyway, hopefully the new rear will fix it, if not I will shim the front. Thanks for the calculator @p_ham . Now I just need to understand the parameters asked for.
Distance to target: self explanatory
Sight radius: distance between front and rear sight
Dougfirtree
Well-known member
That's cool. It would be nice if something like that were available for about 1/3 of the price, but good to know that's out there.Get one of these elevated peeps. Chef's kiss.
Rear Peep Sight Elevation Modification | eBay
Replaces windage part ofWilliams and E. A. Brown style peep sights. Threaded for original peep sightaperture. Works well withWilliams Western Precision Muzzleloader Front Sight.www.ebay.com
You'll need a taller front sight. Here's a calculator that'll get you where to need to be.
Sight Correction Calculator
Dillon Precision: Reloaders, Reloading Equipment, Bullet Reloading, Bullet Reloaders
p_ham
Well-known member
It's on the list of stuff I need to start making.
shannerdrake
Well-known member
Trust me I get it. But I’ll also defend them a bit. The link p_ham sent is for a ln elevation mod and it is $65. Williams will give you the whole front and rear sight setup for what $100? They need to build a degree of universality into their products to make them approachable. They could build numerous models that are more specific to your specific gun but would you be ok paying $200+ for that setup?
Secondly, the inconsistency of muzzleloaders has a lot to do with it. I setup two identical muzzleloaders and one needed two shims under the rear sight to get it high enough and one only needed half of the elevation to get dialed. That’s not William’s fault is it? I just installed matching rails on matching muzzleloaders a few weeks back and on one the receiver holes were so shallow I had to shorten the base screws by 3 turns while the other was fine. And these were $1,000 muzzleloaders, not $150 blue light specials.
blueridge
Well-known member
I received the new rear peep base today. As you’ll see in the picture, it basically ends where the taller one starts. Description on the invoice: “CVA Round Base Only.” So it is the base of part 070154 on their website, and gun specific.
Hopefully those that buy this in the future for a CVA will know this is an available and free option and can stop going through the hassle of shimming the front with pop cans.
Hopefully those that buy this in the future for a CVA will know this is an available and free option and can stop going through the hassle of shimming the front with pop cans.
blueridge
Well-known member
Quick update on this, as it had me chasing my tail, wasting a lot of powder, and starting to question my sanity.
Long story short, it was the scope, see through rings, and base that made the POI outside of the original peep’s available POA. With everything on and the peep all the way down the ramp, it shot over a foot high. Take the scope and base off, zero is at the third line from the bottom.
The longer story: I was using the scope to accuracy test bullets and get the best 100yd zero. The see through rings would let me then just adjust the iron sights to match the scope’s point of aim. Pull the scope. Colorado ready. Should have been easy. Not so fast there, Skippy.
Per my previous post, I didn’t have enough down travel in the rear sight to get up to the scope’s poa, so Williams sent me a lower base.
The new lower rear base took up two screws on the barrel, so I couldn’t use the scope setup. With the peep all the way up this lower ramp, I was now shooting a foot low, which meant I needed to be within the range of the original base. Wtf!
Put the original setup back on and did a test.
With scope and base on and peep all the way down the ramp: 12” high.
Took the scope off: 4” high.
Took the scope base off: 2” low.
Three lines up: dead nuts.
I would never have believed, even though it’s mounted directly to the barrel vs an action, that mounting a scope directly to the rear of a thick in-line barrel would make that much of a difference in vertical impact shift, but it does. That’s 14” at 100yds.
What a waste of powder and bullets. Luckily Midsouth just got in some BH209, bc I was down to my last three charge tubes.
Long story short, it was the scope, see through rings, and base that made the POI outside of the original peep’s available POA. With everything on and the peep all the way down the ramp, it shot over a foot high. Take the scope and base off, zero is at the third line from the bottom.
The longer story: I was using the scope to accuracy test bullets and get the best 100yd zero. The see through rings would let me then just adjust the iron sights to match the scope’s point of aim. Pull the scope. Colorado ready. Should have been easy. Not so fast there, Skippy.
Per my previous post, I didn’t have enough down travel in the rear sight to get up to the scope’s poa, so Williams sent me a lower base.
The new lower rear base took up two screws on the barrel, so I couldn’t use the scope setup. With the peep all the way up this lower ramp, I was now shooting a foot low, which meant I needed to be within the range of the original base. Wtf!
Put the original setup back on and did a test.
With scope and base on and peep all the way down the ramp: 12” high.
Took the scope off: 4” high.
Took the scope base off: 2” low.
Three lines up: dead nuts.
I would never have believed, even though it’s mounted directly to the barrel vs an action, that mounting a scope directly to the rear of a thick in-line barrel would make that much of a difference in vertical impact shift, but it does. That’s 14” at 100yds.
What a waste of powder and bullets. Luckily Midsouth just got in some BH209, bc I was down to my last three charge tubes.
