A timely lament . . .

Well my number one Job is taking care of what I think is right for my kids and to be honest I really don't care if someone feels judged in the process. So we'll have agree to disagree. Not your job, like it's not my problem.
And here’s the thing, like Will said, that’s how we all feel about our kids. Even those parents of the trans kids - who have every right to love, support, and protect their kids how they see fit.

I’d rather teach my kids to love and respect ALL (no asterisk) than the other option.
 
And here’s the thing, like Will said, that’s how we all feel about our kids. Even those parents of the trans kids - who have every right to love, support, and protect their kids how they see fit.

I’d rather teach my kids to love and respect ALL (no asterisk) than the other option.
Sure and I understand that but what I feel is safe for my kids is priority over if someone or there kids feel judged. Mental illness needs to be treated not apologized for and tip toed around.
 
Sure and I understand that but what I feel is safe for my kids is priority over if someone or there kids feel judged. Mental illness needs to be treated not apologized for and tip toed around.
I don’t really see it as apologizing or tip-toeing around it, and if you want to consider it mental illness I’ll go with it for the sake of an analogy - if the same kid has severe chronic depression would you also teach your kid to avoid them, and exclude them from sports? Maybe throw rocks at ‘em and call ‘em a freak? Or are you gonna have the attitude of “hey, that one is going through some shit we know nothing about and they’re sick. Treat them with a little kindness.”

Like it or not, suicide rates in these kids is astronomically high. That’s fact. The same suicide rates drop when the kids feel loved and supported. Agree with it or not, and as silly as it sounds - love over hate. Thats my choice for what I want to teach my kids.
 
I don’t really see it as apologizing or tip-toeing around it, and if you want to consider it mental illness I’ll go with it for the sake of an analogy - if the same kid has severe chronic depression would you also teach your kid to avoid them, and exclude them from sports? Maybe throw rocks at ‘em and call ‘em a freak? Or are you gonna have the attitude of “hey, that one is going through some shit we know nothing about and they’re sick. Treat them with a little kindness.”

Like it or not, suicide rates in these kids TO PALY IN GIRLS SPOT astronomically high. That’s fact. The same suicide rates drop when the kids feel loved and supported. Agree with it or not, and as silly as it sounds - love over hate. Thats my choice for what I want to teach my kids.
Yup that's what I'm teaching my kids, hate and to throw rocks at outcasts. GMAFB. In no way am I advocating hate or to isolate kids who are "different or having a hard time" If one of your sons wants to play girls sports or go into the locker room with the girls, are you gonna encourage it? That's what we're talking about here isn't it? Boys and girls sports, them using the same bathrooms. That's what I was referring to so maybe I was off base. As far as how to treat kids who are depressed or whatever the case may be I agree wholeheartedly with your post above.
 
I think the trans issue is derailing the topic a bit.

1. Trans is booming. Is it Munchausen by proxy, the latest fad? Who knows?
2. Treatment with med/surg is in violation of the Nuremberg Code; since risks/benefits are unknown, informed consent cannot be given.
3. Just keep the sports separate so the girls don't get hurt, and please, keep the swinging dicks out of the girl's locker room. Pretty simple really.

Meanwhile, we have to choose between a senile codger who loves every war he sees, in debt to China, and an egomaniac who just wants revenge. Or, a 60s liberal. That's who I'm most interested in, even though I'm usually a bit right of center. Wants to take on CDC, FDA, etc. And I'm old enough to have idolized JFK. Could you imagine our country with no Vietnam war?
 
Hey Nick, you know in the 70's my Mom had to play with the boys HS bball team because they didn't have a girls team the first two years. Now was she a pioneer or a freak, should she have stayed in the stands?

It's crazy how much more tolerant kids are than adults.
 
Hey Nick, you know in the 70's my Mom had to play with the boys HS bball team because they didn't have a girls team the first two years. Now was she a pioneer or a freak, should she have stayed in the stands?

It's crazy how much more tolerant kids are than adults.
Did she change with them in the locker room? Are the teams that are mixing now short of kids?
 
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Yup that's what I'm teaching my kids, hate and to throw rocks at outcasts. GMAFB. In no way am I advocating hate or to isolate kids who are "different or having a hard time" If one of your sons wants to play girls sports or go into the locker room with the girls, are you gonna encourage it? That's what we're talking about here isn't it? Boys and girls sports, them using the same bathrooms. That's what I was referring to so maybe I was off base. As far as how to treat kids who are depressed or whatever the case may be I agree wholeheartedly with your post above.
You're right, I took it too far. The hate and rocks thing stepped over the line, and I apologize. I, in no way, meant it to seem like I think (or anybody should think) that's what you're teaching your kids. You're a damn good dad/step dad and it's plain to see through what you post on here.

And honestly, if one of my boys came to me and "wanted to play girls sports or go into the locker room with the girls" I don't know how I'd handle it - encouragement or otherwise. I do know it wouldn't be a snap decision either way. There'd be lots of discussion, lots of contemplation, and most of all lots of love and support for the kid.
 
Did she change with them in the locker room? Are the teams that are mixing now short of kids?
I agree with you on this and would be right there with you to make sure it doesn't happen. There is certainly a line on these things and my kid's safety is all that matters. My argument is more this trans thing is more of the shiny object used to distract. Work together to make some progress on human trafficking and modifying section 230. That will protect kids more broadly. Find places to agree and stop focusing on what is really still a minor issue.
 
When I was in highschool in the late 60's we would have done anything to get into the girls locker room. You were in deep shit if you got caught even trying. Now they not only condone it but encourage it. I would have gladly worn a dress to shower with the girls. Times are sure changing.

Ona serious note, I have a lot of compassion for you guys that are fighting with the weirdness of the world.
 
You're right, I took it too far. The hate and rocks thing stepped over the line, and I apologize. I, in no way, meant it to seem like I think (or anybody should think) that's what you're teaching your kids. You're a damn good dad/step dad and it's plain to see through what you post on here.

And honestly, if one of my boys came to me and "wanted to play girls sports or go into the locker room with the girls" I don't know how I'd handle it - encouragement or otherwise. I do know it wouldn't be a snap decision either way. There'd be lots of discussion, lots of contemplation, and most of all lots of love and support for the



I agree, I don't know if any of us would know how to approach that initially. Apology accepted, no harm no foul
 
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Perspective does start to change when you people you actually know personally start dealing gender identity problems, depression, and attempts at suicide or people you know whose kids start dealing with it. I think I suspect all parties wish to god they weren’t dealing with it and could simply just be as they appear and be happy about it.

I have a former coworker who is now a woman and current co worker whose has a kid dealing with it and thats all it took for me to shift some lines of thinking.

You can still take opinions of many varying degrees after at least recognizing that. And I still struggle with how I feel about a lot of it and the many facets of how society is embracing or not embracing it. But at least recognizing that for what it is will really soften the heart on this stuff.
 
Many years ago there was parts sales man at the local auto parts. His name was Bob . Bob went on vacation and came back as Paula. The way he was treated was all over the board. To me he/she was still a great parts guy. Soon after probably within the next year he moved to Los Angeles where nobody knew him. In even the boldest stretch of imagination did he look female. He committed suicide not long after that. Sad, he was a pretty good guy. This was over 40 years ago
 
The book thing is a completely different argument and frankly a huge red herring issue in my opinion.

Respectfully disagree.

I see book banning as the same impulse as breaking off relationships, canceling people, etc. It’s all people making stuff go away that they don’t like.

We can all come up rationalizations why a book, or a topic, should not be allowed in a school. Few of them hold a much water. And please keep in mind, I’m simply talking about ideas, not actions.

I was going to cite some examples, but this thread is already going down hill a bit, and I cannot think of any, at the moment, that won’t make it worse.

Whether we’re taking about the First Amendment, or free speech as a value, censorship is pretty much always the wrong remedy. (Obviously the rules around kids are slightly different, but not that much.)

The answer to speech we disagree with should simply be more speech. Ideally, civil, and respectful speech. I hope I accomplished that here.
 
Respectfully disagree.

I see book banning as the same impulse as breaking off relationships, canceling people, etc. It’s all people making stuff go away that they don’t like.

We can all come up rationalizations why a book, or a topic, should not be allowed in a school. Few of them hold a much water. And please keep in mind, I’m simply talking about ideas, not actions.

I was going to cite some examples, but this thread is already going down hill a bit, and I cannot think of any, at the moment, that won’t make it worse.

Whether we’re taking about the First Amendment, or free speech as a value, censorship is pretty much always the wrong remedy. (Obviously the rules around kids are slightly different, but not that much.)

The answer to speech we disagree with should simply be more speech. Ideally, civil, and respectful speech. I hope I accomplished that here.
Are you really arguing that putting pornography in elementary schools is OK? I am a staunch Free Speech advocate, but porn in schools for 3rd graders? Never until this generation have we experimented with exposing tender age kids to porn. What good could you possibly hope to accomplish?

I suppose if parents want their kids to turn into less than desirable adults, they could show them porn at 4. But the schools should not.

I feel like we're in Bizzarro World.

Anyway, I wanted to talk about RFK/Biden/Trump. Have a couple of rifles coming I need to build loads for, although Kirby will have a load for the 6.5.

Longbow out.
 
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