A "common sense" proposal that will piss off both sides

[longbow51]

Because unless you train for it, the stress of actually killing someone, especially when there's a severe threat to people you love, can do things to you you'd never guess. Not everything is as Hollywood, or our egos would lead us to believe.

The only time I've every been in a high stress situation I did the exact opposite of my training and definitely made the situation worse. Hell, I can hardly remember the situation at all, I mostly just blacked out.

"A man's got to know his limitations,". And I respect yours.

 

[ImBillT]

The absolute last thing I want to do is ask a teacher to anything but teach. I'm not asked to process water rights and shoot people. Shooting someone should be a task that is a sole responsibility. You shouldn't be teaching about the Civil war, planning lessons, grading tests, and training how to kill someone.

Not only am I not going to ask them, I'm not going to let them volunteer, because too much rides on them not taking on more than they can chew. Killing someone is not target practice, and while every cowboy thinks they have what it takes, I'm not willing to put my kids in a situation where maybe they panic and make it worse.

Allowing teachers to defend themselves forces nothing upon them. Denying them their constitutional right to bear arms forces them to be human shields. There are teachers that want to carry.

Do you believe that had the teachers in Uvalde been armed that their panic would have resulted in more than 21 deaths? I don’t.

 

[Alpine01]

I'm not sure, anecdotally probably impossible to answer. I've only been here a short time, and the law has been around since 1998 I believe?

But, if I try to look at it objectively.... me personally safer? Well I've lived in three states MA, CO, and MT in the last decade.

MT has a pop of 1MM, up from 800M
CO has a pop of 5.8MM up from 4.2MM
MA has a pop of 6.8M up from 6.3M
So MA has had the least growth over time.

MA has always had the strict gun laws, it's also as much high median income, best healthcare system, best metal healthcare, and top education systems (top =top 5, let's not argue about rank) Point being any of those things could also lead to it being safer regardless of gun laws.

Firearm deaths, MA has about the same number as MT despite being much much larger and having a major us metro area.

Compared to Colorado MA has a fraction of the total deaths. CO is in a lot of ways a comparable state in terms of hospitals/education/ etc..

In the last 10 years the firearm mortality rate in CO and MT have increased a lot while MA has stayed pretty flat.

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Are gun laws working, maybe. My argument is that if so it's because in MA there is a high barrier for entry and that fact keep people from owning them.

That being said the closest gun store to my house is in NH and it's kinda a free for all in NH comparatively.


So long answer, MA is certainly safer than CO, hard to say what MA's gun death rate would like had those laws not been passed, maybe they would be trending up like CO and MT.

Don't get too far out on your limb. Taken quite literally you are dismantling the law enforcement sector of government. If I can't depend on them, why the hell should I be paying for them? And no... I am not for defunding the police.

The defense expenditures for the federal government total half of every dollar spent. Your logic suggests that is money poorly spent.

Finally, the typical elementary school teacher is not a gun crank. So should she wear body armor every day in class? Since most of the shooters are using a semiautomatic rifle, she is at a significant disadvantage if she uses a pistol. How should her gun be stored? On her person, at the ready? If not, she is dead a second after he enters the room.

I think you need to hone up on your fact checking before advising others not to get too far out on a limb. In FY2021 federal expenditures were 41% Income/Social Security; 22% Health Care and Medicare; and 11% National Defense. The first two, collectively grouped as entitlement spending, accounted for 63% of all Federal Expenditures or $4.2T. National Defense was $0.755T. Hardly half of every dollar spent.

 

[DouglasR]

It’s not victim blaming.

Your tax money paid for the security at the school. Example the locked doors, metal doors, and so on.

For multiple decades now it has been standard practice to teach school staff basic principles of controlling school access.

Public access is via the main entrance at most schools.

By failing to follow that very basic training it allowed for a failure in the security of the building.

We would hold people accountable in many other professions for such a act of complacency.

This is no different.

Is that teacher at fault for the crime. No

Is that teacher at fault for failing to follow a basic safety protocol that made the crime easier to commit. Yes

Failure to follow “safety protocols” in other professions has consequences.

Are we talking about a school or Fort Knox?
Or the White House a couple years ago when that dude ran through the front door and no one noticed.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/white-house-fence-jumper-made-it-far-deeper-into-building-than-previously-known/2014/09/29/02efd53e-47ea-11e4-a046-120a8a855cca_story.html

It’s a school dude.
Sometimes there’s not central air so you have to prop the door open.
Sometimes one of the students knocks on the side door and you let them in.
#community
#lovethyneighbor

 

[Hammsolo]

What are you gonna do?

Serious question

Great question! I teach. I wanted to quit. I had an offer in the private sector I passed on this year. I’m a Science teacher, and teach students to search for facts to make informed decisions. I teach every kid equally no matter race, color, creed, gender even if I don’t agree with their families belief systems.

This year I was attacked by a right wing whack job add for respectfully telling his son he can wear hateful shirts and use hateful icons. While he screamed at me for being emotionally weak I laughed inside. I told him his son was free to wear shirts that simply shared his beliefs without attacking others with different beliefs. I continue to teach his son with respect and care to this day. I teach what I’m supposed to teach; scientific thinking, facts and problem solving.

My goal each day is to teach students to respect themselves, others, and the environment they’re in.

What do you do?

 

[406dn]

I think you need to hone up on your fact checking before advising others not to get too far out on a limb. In FY2021 federal expenditures were 41% Income/Social Security; 22% Health Care and Medicare; and 11% National Defense. The first two, collectively grouped as entitlement spending, accounted for 63% of all Federal Expenditures or $4.2T. National Defense was $0.755T. Hardly half of every dollar spent.

Yep, the pie chart I found was for discretionary spending, not total spending.

President Biden's FY 2022 Budget Request

The president's request calls for $753 billion for the Pentagon and nuclear weapons, plus another $12 billion in foreign military aid.

www.nationalpriorities.org

 

[Hammsolo]

Well….a cop has about 7,000 hats to wear on a job……

Some of those Marines didn’t have a primary job as a trigger puller…..some drive trucks, used a keyboard, or a spoon….and just had some basic marksmanship training once a year.

I am currently on my way back from an 8th Grade Graduation Trip to Orcas Island teaching life skills and such. I have managed them 24 hours a day all week. I’ve had injuries, dealt with drama you wouldn’t believe, kids processing the death by suicide of their parent, dealt with home sickness, gender issues, puking kids, making out…. yep, train me up to carry a weapon in a crisis situation! Oh, and I’m not getting paid 16 hours a day. However, I know that this is a trip that helps shape kids to be positive citizens.

 

[A207X2]

If you commit a crime with a gun, and are found guilty by a jury of your peers, you get the death penalty. Expedited appeals, but once all are exhausted, proceed swiftly with sentencing.

Make the law the same way that Clinton's Assault Weapon Ban was - have an expiration date of 10 years. Renewable if Congress approves.

Change my mind.

 

[Hammsolo]

Well….a cop has about 7,000 hats to wear on a job……

Some of those Marines didn’t have a primary job as a trigger puller…..some drive trucks, used a keyboard, or a spoon….and just had some basic marksmanship training once a year.

I’m not questioning how hard people work. When are we going to recognize no one can do it all, or know it all? Soldiers should be soldiers, and teachers should be teachers.

 

[HandgunHunter]

Are we talking about a school or Fort Knox?
Or the White House a couple years ago when that dude ran through the front door and no one noticed.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/white-house-fence-jumper-made-it-far-deeper-into-building-than-previously-known/2014/09/29/02efd53e-47ea-11e4-a046-120a8a855cca_story.html

It’s a school dude.
Sometimes there’s not central air so you have to prop the door open.
Sometimes one of the students knocks on the side door and you let them in.
#community
#lovethyneighbor

What is the staff to do?

Follow the policy and procedure set forth that they are instructed to follow.

 

[HandgunHunter]

I’m not questioning how hard people work. When are we going to recognize no one can do it all, or know it all? Soldiers should be soldiers, and teachers should be teachers.

Just think how this could have ended if the teacher didn’t prop open the locked and secured door….

 

[woods89]

I am currently on my way back from an 8th Grade Graduation Trip to Orcas Island teaching life skills and such. I have managed them 24 hours a day all week. I’ve had injuries, dealt with drama you wouldn’t believe, kids processing the death by suicide of their parent, dealt with home sickness, gender issues, puking kids, making out…. yep, train me up to carry a weapon in a crisis situation! Oh, and I’m not getting paid 16 hours a day. However, I know that this is a trip that helps shape kids to be positive citizens.

Maybe my job isn't so bad......

 

[Hammsolo]

Just think how this could have ended if the teacher didn’t prop open the locked and secured door….

I hear you. Kids prop doors all the time. We try to keep them closed. Would it have stopped him? He crashed a truck and was ready for combat. It did make it easier.

I’m sure there’s loads of blame to go around. Parents, society, teachers, coaches, and possibly even the shop that sold him the gun. We keep living and dying… when are we going to start learning and changing?

 

[Hammsolo]

Maybe my job isn't so bad......

I’m exhausted and dislocated my knee on a high ropes course too… The kids are super thankful and learned a ton.

 

[HandgunHunter]

I hear you. Kids prop doors all the time. We try to keep them closed. Would it have stopped him? He crashed a truck and was ready for combat. It did make it easier.

I’m sure there’s loads of blame to go around. Parents, society, teachers, coaches, and possibly even the shop that sold him the gun. We keep living and dying… when are we going to start learning and changing?

I just don’t get why we invest in all kinds of security and training on that security and it isn’t used.

I also don’t understand why we invest so much man power and lethal options into protecting money and collecting tax….

Shouldn’t the same investment be made for children?

We had SRO and armed guards at my school in the 90s. And the only one you noticed was obviously armed was the SRO. So no…it doesn’t have to look like a prison.

Am I advocating that teachers be armed. No

Could it be the option of the teacher. Maybe.

Could some other staff at the school be armed. Maybe

Could a non uniformed guard be at the schools maybe.

The mental health issue is way out of control. Since the mass closing of facilities that whole system has been screwed….and the government doesn’t care.

We protect our money a lot more vigorously than we do our people….and that’s a damn shame.

 

[DouglasR]

I’m exhausted and dislocated my knee on a high ropes course too…

That’s the sign of a good teacher.

 

[4ohSick]

New thought, give teachers one of these, but in 20 gauge loaded with some #4 lead shot.

I’ll defer to Dick Cheney’s hunting partner, but I probably wouldn’t opt for #4 shot for anti-personnel purposes…

 

[Cheesehead]

'The Onion' has republished a grim headline about mass shootings 21 times since 2014

The satirical news site publishes modified versions of the article after major mass shootings, always with the same headline: "No Way To Prevent This,' Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens."

www.npr.org

 

[406dn]

Just think how this could have ended if the teacher didn’t prop open the locked and secured door….

I am curious to learn the reason the door was propped open.

My speculation is that it was an effort to let in fresh air. Irregardless, it was a horrible mistake that had tragic consequences.

 

[Nick87]

Great question! I teach. I wanted to quit. I had an offer in the private sector I passed on this year. I’m a Science teacher, and teach students to search for facts to make informed decisions. I teach every kid equally no matter race, color, creed, gender even if I don’t agree with their families belief systems.

This year I was attacked by a right wing whack job add for respectfully telling his son he can wear hateful shirts and use hateful icons. While he screamed at me for being emotionally weak I laughed inside. I told him his son was free to wear shirts that simply shared his beliefs without attacking others with different beliefs. I continue to teach his son with respect and care to this day. I teach what I’m supposed to teach; scientific thinking, facts and problem solving.

My goal each day is to teach students to respect themselves, others, and the environment they’re in.

What do you do?

I wasn't asking what you do for a living we all know your a teacher, I'm asking what as a teacher are you going to do/ want to do to prevent school shootings.