A "common sense" proposal that will piss off both sides

[hank4elk]

" a well regulated militia" says it all,IMHO.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I have a hard time believing violent gun deaths would not go DOWN!!! If legal carry was allowed. I think they would think twice if they had to deal with more armed carry of the target

This isn’t an R or D thing or 2A thing for me it’s just logic… I mean have you met people? Have you driven on the highway?

Already we’ve had a number of incidents of people shooting and killing kids after they have been cut off in traffic and started shooting.

I think there are a lot of normally quite reasonable people who shouldn’t be carrying, I mean can you imagine the number of deaths if people were allowed to carry in the airport when their flight was delayed? Not even joking I’ve watched people lose their shit and get dragged away from the ticket counter.

Polite society is an armed society… 1881 do you think Manhattan or Tombstone had a hire murder rate?

 

[Europe]

I think you meant "higher", but either word works actually

 

[drexal]

Where are the statistics on how many lives are saved by the use or perceived protection of legal firearm possession. I have a hard time believing violent gun deaths would not go DOWN!!! If legal carry was allowed. I think they would think twice if they had to deal with more armed carry of the target

There is no clear answer to that question. Estimates range from 55,000 to a couple of million defensive gun uses (biases and methodology play here). Some of those most definitely saved innocent lives. Here is a brief and what I consider fair assessment:

That Time The CDC Asked About Defensive Gun Uses

 

[VikingsGuy]

I think you meant "higher", but either word works actually

But he used his ellipsis properly in the opening sentence so he has that going for him . . . which is nice.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Where are the statistics on how many lives are saved by the use or perceived protection of legal firearm possession. I have a hard time believing violent gun deaths would not go DOWN!!! If legal carry was allowed. I think they would think twice if they had to deal with more armed carry of the target

An armed society is a polite society doesn’t seem to be working in south Chicago.

 

[drexal]

An armed society is a polite society doesn’t seem to be working in south Chicago.

Come on. This is the example you're going with. A place with strict gun laws? Where the gangs run the streets while the average citizen has to fight tooth and nail to own a weapon for self-defense?

 

[VikingsGuy]

Come on. This is the example you're going with. A place with strict gun laws? Where the gangs run the streets while the average citizen has to fight tooth and nail to own a weapon for self-defense?

If the premise is, if "Bob" knows that "Dave" has a gun, Bob will not act violently toward Dave - then it is an apt example. Many armed men are shooting other presumably armed men with whom they have conflict (often quite minor reasons in many cases). They are self-arming for defense and then they are using them pro-actively, accidentally, heatedly and/or vindictively - such is the human condition.

Whether or not their gun is illegally gotten is irrelevant to your initial premise.

 

[Bigjay73]

My home state of AZ did away with needing a permit to carry concealed several years ago, they rate poorly in gun homicides unfortunately. More access to firearms doesn't equate to less violence in the case of Arizona

 

[LWC55]

An armed society is a polite society doesn’t seem to be working in south Chicago.

88man said legal firearms. Criminals are generally predisposed to be impolite.

 

[LWC55]

" a well regulated militia" says it all,IMHO.

 

[drexal]

If the premise is, if "Bob" knows that "Dave" has a gun, Bob will not act violently toward Dave - then it is an apt example. Many armed men are shooting other presumably armed men with whom they have conflict (often quite minor reasons in many cases). They are self-arming for offence and then they are using them pro-actively, purposefully, heatedly and/or vindictively - such is the human condition.

Whether or not their gun is illegally gotten is irrelevant to your initial premise.

Fixed it for you.

 

[88man]

If the premise is, if "Bob" knows that "Dave" has a gun, Bob will not act violently toward Dave - then it is an apt example. Many armed men are shooting other presumably armed men with whom they have conflict (often quite minor reasons in many cases). They are self-arming for defense and then they are using them pro-actively, accidentally, heatedly and/or vindictively - such is the human condition.

Whether or not their gun is illegally gotten is irrelevant to your initial premise.

I don't honestly see it that way. See when both are parties are in illegal possession of guns and using them in crime how can any common sense gun reform change that. They are not following any laws and heck a high percentage of that gun crime is drug related and drugs are illegal so those thugs can get drugs that are 100% common sense illegal why would any gun legislation affect what they do except enforcement to the fullest.

 

[88man]

My home state of AZ did away with needing a permit to carry concealed several years ago, they rate poorly in gun homicides unfortunately. More access to firearms doesn't equate to less violence in the case of Arizona

If you are living or spending alot of time in an area of high violent crime and your on this forum I could not imagine not carrying a high percentage of the time when and where legal for self protection and the protection of my family.

 

[KB_]

An armed society is a polite society doesn’t seem to be working in south Chicago.

Doesn't Chicago have a ton of gun regulation tho? I might be wrong on that one.

I think the culture in a large swath of Chicago is a great example of improper education on firearms.

I'm not gonna lie when im driving home to michigan for a visit and we go thru Chicago, my head is on a swivel (mostly for the unbelievably shitty drivers).

 

[Bigjay73]

If you are living or spending alot of time in an area of high violent crime and your on this forum I could not imagine not carrying a high percentage of the time when and where legal for self protection and the protection of my family.

Or stay out of those areas, yeah, sometimes it's a necessity. But if you're gonna carry, may as well always carry. The Kroger that was shot up in Boulder was in, well, Boulder, a low crime area. You never know when or where it's going to hit the fan

 

[jt13]

I've never understood how we pay a lot of attention to the "right to keep and bear arms" part but completely ignore the "well regulated militia" line. Are we just operating under the assumption that the entire civilian population is both well regulated and a militia?

I carry guns every day for work. There's 4 in my truck as we speak. I'm a state police certified firearms instructor for handguns, shotguns, and patrol rifles. I have a concealed carry permit and LEOSA and carry a gun off duty when I deem it necessary.

All that being said, I believe that the age to purchase semi-auto centerfire weapons should be increased to 21 unless you are in the military, classroom and range training should be required in all 50 states to carry a concealed weapon, penalties and enforcement for gun crimes should be drastically increased, expansion of the list of crimes that puts people on the "persons not to possess" list to all violent crime and any other crime graded as an M1 or Felony, and creating a database of all those Federally and under state law prohibited from owning or possessing a firearm readily accessible by law enforcement.

On the other side of the coin: I believe that suppressors should require no more paperwork than a handgun purchase, guns should not be regulated on cosmetic appearance or accessories, and that magazine capacity does not need to be regulated (except when hunting).

 

[buffybr]

We don'e need any more gun regulations. PERIOD!

We need to enforce the current regulations.

Isn't murder still illegal in all 50 states?

Why wasn't Hunter Biden charged for falsifying a Form 4473 to buy a handgun?

 

[jt13]

We don'e need any more gun regulations. PERIOD!

We need to enforce the current regulations.

Isn't murder still illegal in all 50 states?

Why wasn't Hunter Biden charged for falsifying a Form 4473 to buy a handgun?

Biden comments aside-- I agree thay a lot more will get accomplished by increasing penalties and enforcement of existing regulations as well as increasing the tools available to law enforcement.

At least in PA I find it way more difficult than it should be to find out if someone is legally prohibited from possessing a firearm. Know what notification happens when you run the drivers license info or registration of a person that can't have guns?

....Nothing. No bells. No whistles. No "hit" in the system.

 

[MTLabrador]

Biden comments aside-- I agree thay a lot more will get accomplished by increasing penalties and enforcement of existing regulations as well as increasing the tools available to law enforcement.

At least in PA I find it way more difficult than it should be to find out if someone is legally prohibited from possessing a firearm. Know what notification happens when you run the drivers license info or registration of a person that can't have guns?

....Nothing. No bells. No whistles. No "hit" in the system.

That’s very true here as well. It’s a serious process to find out if the sketchy dude who was arrested with a pistol tucked in his jeans is actually a prohibited person or not. Unless they’re currently on probation nothing pops.