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A brawl brewing in spokane?

When you zoom out and look at human existence on a timeline, the view that hunting is not acceptable is an extremist view.

I’m not going to argue with some weirdo whether I should poop if I need to, eat when I’m hungry or have sex with my wife, especially if we decide to have kids, so why would I entertain some equally crazy ideology that I shouldn’t hunt? Hunting is every bit as natural and normal as the others.
Fully agree, but also for thousands of years humans have been trying to control each others lives and tell other folks what to do esp. with regard to sex, procreation, and food.

I'd argue especially with regard to those things, basically every major religion . 🤷‍♂️
 
Devils advocate, this is about wildlife across the state, held in trust for all citizens, irrespective of county.

Certainly there are local impacts and considerations that must be take into account when decisions are made. But, now you’re flirting with the attitudes identified in the MT thread that you worry about your part of the state and I’ll worry about mine.
Sure. But the reason we have states is that not everyone thought alike on a national level. The reason we have Counties is because not every thinks the same across the State. Our Federal representation in the House is based on like minded people getting to vote for some who represents them and their communities. We can/have divided ourselves into various group sizes throughout our history to meet our needs. Much of our political strife comes from majority rule not acknowledging minority opinion. I'm not saying that WDFW commission can't make broad decisions across the state, but maybe that that isn't the responsible decision. I mean we have game units for a reason, we have different management plans for different populations for a reason, it is not scientifically appropriate to manage all deer the same. I would say the same is true for predators in the Blues, but it's not social scientifically appropriate to manage them the same as predators in King County.
 
Just because you aren't familiar with the issue outside of the federal sphere, doesn't mean there aren't active & organized groups working in this space at the state level.
Maybe you aren’t familiar with all the groups or the issue bud, see all the LOCAL and National Organizations that supported RAWA and updating PR to make it more inclusive... and you think more hunters oppose this or they only oppose it at the state level? Riiiiight….

 
Maybe you aren’t familiar with all the groups or the issue bud, see all the LOCAL and National Organizations that supported RAWA and updating PR to make it more inclusive... and you think more hunters oppose this or they only oppose it at the state level? Riiiiight….


Just fyi, I've worked as a sportsman's advocate for 20 years in WY & MT. Fairly familiar with the lay of the land here. Thanks for educating me on who DU is, though.
 
Sure. But the reason we have states is that not everyone thought alike on a national level. The reason we have Counties is because not every thinks the same across the State. Our Federal representation in the House is based on like minded people getting to vote for some who represents them and their communities. We can/have divided ourselves into various group sizes throughout our history to meet our needs. Much of our political strife comes from majority rule not acknowledging minority opinion. I'm not saying that WDFW commission can't make broad decisions across the state, but maybe that that isn't the responsible decision. I mean we have game units for a reason, we have different management plans for different populations for a reason, it is not scientifically appropriate to manage all deer the same. I would say the same is true for predators in the Blues, but it's not social scientifically appropriate to manage them the same as predators in King County.
You may also be able to make the point that specifically in terms of predatory management the commission should consider the public welfare, not just public opinion. If we consider that most people did not support mandatory seatbelts when it was passed into law, an action viewed as a betterment to the public good, despite their opinion. We could make a similar argument that even if the majority of people don't want predator hunting, we still need to keep some level of separation between the people and predators for public safety reasons.
 
But the reason we have states is that not everyone thought alike on a national level. The reason we have Counties is because not every thinks the same across the State.
Agreed, I’m just saying we have to be very careful that opinions aren’t invalidated because you don’t live i the county of issue. A guy living in the Palouse has every bit as much of a voice in coastal steelhead management because of public trust.
 
Agreed, I’m just saying we have to be very careful that opinions aren’t invalidated because you don’t live i the county of issue. A guy living in the Palouse has every bit as much of a voice in coastal steelhead management because of public trust.
Yes, that sword can cut both ways.

But don't you think that Forks should have a bit more say in how steelhead are managed in the Bogi? I think I do. I recognize that that means my opinion loses some weight, esp on this topic, one I care a ton about. But the benefits of having more say around my house and in my more common stomping grounds outweighs that concern.
 
Yes, that sword can cut both ways.

But don't you think that Forks should have a bit more say in how steelhead are managed in the Bogi? I think I do. I recognize that that means my opinion loses some weight, esp on this topic, one I care a ton about. But the benefits of having more say around my house and in my more common stomping grounds outweighs that concern.
Yes and no. I think without context it’s hard to say definitively.

As always, I appreciate the dialogue.
 
Agreed, I’m just saying we have to be very careful that opinions aren’t invalidated because you don’t live i the county of issue. A guy living in the Palouse has every bit as much of a voice in coastal steelhead management because of public trust.
Totally agree with your point of view, but state boundaries are completely arbitrary human constructs.

Jump across the country and states are tiny, New England and Washington are pretty close to the same size. City folks in Boston get zero say in deer management in New Hampshire or Vermont.

So again I think you are correct, but there are other places were local geographies control game management to a much larger degree.
 
I’m going to go out on a limb here and just make some big picture predictions. I don’t honestly think that the underlying goal of the majority of these groups is to end hunting across-the-board.

If you look at public opinion surveys, there is actually quite strong public support for hunting for food. There is very little public support for hunting from a “trophy“ aspect, and/or killing stuff you don’t consume. I firmly believe the goal of this push is to largely limit predator hunting where the animals are not used for food, or they are simply killed so that we can increase herd numbers of ungulates, so we have more of those to kill.

I most certainly could be wrong, and I am not going to hold strong and fast to this prediction. We’ll see how it plays out because it most certainly is going to. This isn’t going away in Washington, and it’s only a matter of time before it starts happening. In other states, were you might not expect it. People move, demographics, change, and lung health traditions come under fire.
 
I’m going to go out on a limb here and just make some big picture predictions. I don’t honestly think that the underlying goal of the majority of these groups is to end hunting across-the-board.

If you look at public opinion surveys, there is actually quite strong public support for hunting for food. There is very little public support for hunting from a “trophy“ aspect, and/or killing stuff you don’t consume. I firmly believe the goal of this push is to largely limit predator hunting where the animals are not used for food, or they are simply killed so that we can increase herd numbers of ungulates, so we have more of those to kill.

I most certainly could be wrong, and I am not going to hold strong and fast to this prediction. We’ll see how it plays out because it most certainly is going to. This isn’t going away in Washington, and it’s only a matter of time before it starts happening. In other states, were you might not expect it. People move, demographics, change, and lung health traditions come under fire.
I agree in the near term, not so sure in the long run.

I've personally seen a lot anti predator hunting folks change there tune when there are cats or coyotes in their yards, or bears tipping over trash cans.

In my earlier example about lions, it wasn't the outfitter or sportsman commissioners making the biggest stink about cats and methods of take (pro gloves off) it was actually Carrie Hauser who is the mixed use commissioner who just happens to live in Glenwood.

That said it may be management by APHIS not sportsman.

Either way my money is on the hippies calling for kitty or puppy murder... eventually.
 
Just fyi, I've worked as a sportsman's advocate for 20 years in WY & MT. Fairly familiar with the lay of the land here. Thanks for educating me on who DU is, though.
Clap, clap, clap.

Ya, I didn’t attempt to educate you on who DU is. You sure like your red herring fallacies don’t you.

You decided to repond to a comment I made regarding people generalizing hunters as against RAWA and other efforts to “bring others to the table“ by my noting evidence doesn’t back it up beyond a few fringe groups and extremes. Rather, more hunters and hunting organizations support RAWA. You then cited a two groups I had never heard of and added some andectodotal tales of people you’ve heard it from or something. I pointed out how that didnt contradict what I stated and you continually respond with the same. Ok, I googled the TWO small orgs you cited. BGF’s search feature doesnt work so I can’t search how they feel about RAWA. Google searches of BFG and SFW don’t reflect an opinion on RAWA or similar measures. But let me give you that most or at least some of their members or leaders do and have voiced that opinion to you for the reasons you stated. Still doesn‘t change what I originally said or have continued to state; most of the big, known, local and national hunting organziations support RAWA and similar measures.

You and many others on here keep generalizing all hunters as exclusionists who need some kind of commupence for not letting others play in the outdoor space. That is beyond absurd. Who hunters, in general, have tried to exclude for obvious reasons is anti-hunters from being involved in wildlife management decsions. Period,
 
Who hunters, in general, have tried to exclude for obvious reasons is anti-hunters from being involved in wildlife management decsions. Period,
And you keep avoiding the fact that they are legally allowed to be a voice in wildlife management, which directly includes hunting regulation, setting processes, because they are part of the public trust.

Regardless of what you may think, it is far easier to go back and revisit a hunting regulation that was passed that may not be perfect than to try and undo a citizens initiative.
 
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Clap, clap, clap.

Ya, I didn’t attempt to educate you on who DU is. You sure like your red herring fallacies don’t you.

You decided to repond to a comment I made regarding people generalizing hunters as against RAWA and other efforts to “bring others to the table“ by my noting evidence doesn’t back it up beyond a few fringe groups and extremes. Rather, more hunters and hunting organizations support RAWA. You then cited a two groups I had never heard of and added some andectodotal tales of people you’ve heard it from or something. I pointed out how that didnt contradict what I stated and you continually respond with the same. Ok, I googled the TWO small orgs you cited. BGF’s search feature doesnt work so I can’t search how they feel about RAWA. Google searches of BFG and SFW don’t reflect an opinion on RAWA or similar measures. But let me give you that most or at least some of their members or leaders do and have voiced that opinion to you for the reasons you stated. Still doesn‘t change what I originally said or have continued to state; most of the big, known, local and national hunting organziations support RAWA and similar measures.

You and many others on here keep generalizing all hunters as exclusionists who need some kind of commupence for not letting others play in the outdoor space. That is beyond absurd. Who hunters, in general, have tried to exclude for obvious reasons is anti-hunters from being involved in wildlife management decsions. Period,

how much time have you spent in statehouses during legislative sessions in more than one state? or DC?
 
@Yogithebear You may want to pump the brakes on your rhetoric. You're out over your skis and don't even know it. Not everyone on here is a Joe Schmoe. There are some very high level people you're interacting with who've forgotten more than you'll ever know. One of the things about HT as opposed to elsewhere on Al Gore's internet is that we have actual experts and maintain I high level of decorum in our communications with each other (oh, and meme, lots of memes and gifs). You're still new here, so we'll cut you some slack, but do at least as much listening (reading) as talking (typing); no KB warrior-ing.
 
I’m going to go out on a limb here and just make some big picture predictions. I don’t honestly think that the underlying goal of the majority of these groups is to end hunting across-the-board.

If you look at public opinion surveys, there is actually quite strong public support for hunting for food. There is very little public support for hunting from a “trophy“ aspect, and/or killing stuff you don’t consume. I firmly believe the goal of this push is to largely limit predator hunting where the animals are not used for food, or they are simply killed so that we can increase herd numbers of ungulates, so we have more of those to kill.

I most certainly could be wrong, and I am not going to hold strong and fast to this prediction. We’ll see how it plays out because it most certainly is going to. This isn’t going away in Washington, and it’s only a matter of time before it starts happening. In other states, were you might not expect it. People move, demographics, change, and lung health traditions come under fire.
The two groups cited in the article, Washington Wildlife First, and Wildlife For All, are absolutely extremeists groups who are 100% anti-hunting. They are selling themselves in their slogans as if they are there to represent all these purportodly aggreived outdoor users in wildlife matters, which is a complete hustle. Their agenda is to stop hunting. It is crystal clear on their websites which more or less mirror each other in their goals. Though Washington Wildlife First also mentions plans to go after the state DNR for destruction of their forests… ya, that is after they ban hunting. There is no working with groups that absolutely oppose hunting.

However there are other groups which hunters can and do frequently work with, from the Sierra Club, to even the World Wildlife Foundation which espouse frequent anti-hunting sentiments. This article is about something very different, two organizations who want to fill F&G commissions with anti-hunters. They have seen success so far in Washington.
 
Who hunters, in general, have tried to exclude for obvious reasons is anti-hunters from being involved in wildlife management decsions. Period,

Weird, why isn’t it referrrd to as hunting management?

It’s been a good discussion until recently. I’m out.
 

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