12 vs 20. He nailed it !

[OntarioHunter]

I live in a town of ~13K people that is 3 hours from a city larger. I can walk into 1 of 2 stores in town at a moments notice and buy a case of shells, from .410 lead to 3-1/2" 10 gauge BBB and everything in between. As it's been stated above, you could get a pallet of any kind of ammo dropped on your door step if you really wanted to. If you're living in Canada and have to just through hoops and pay additional fees that doesn't change the fact that it's still available.

In the end, the video made some decent points, but I don't know why we're still having conversations in 2023 about 12 vs 20, 30-06 vs 6.5 PRC, etc.

Funny thing is there are probably dozens of old fudds who have been toting around 12 gauges for 50+ years and see this and think this is some kind of new revelation.

BS. I live in a city of 120K with numerous ammo and gun outlets. No one here has seen 410 shells on the shelf for three years. I have hit all the retailers in Duluth/Superior during the same period. Driving to Havre, Montana and back last year through Minnesota and North Dakota I checked all the stores including Cabelas and Scheels in Grand Forks. Zip for 410. Last month I was in the Twin Cities for four days while my dog had emergency surgery. I checked every outlet including both Cabelas stores, Scheels, Walmart, and numerous other stores. No 410 shells anywhere. Also never saw a box of large rifle primers anywhere. Cabelas did have a few boxes of 16 gauge but only something goofy as I recall (#8 shot Italian stuff?). So, I don't know where your city of 13K is located, but the Federal factory is in Minnesota maybe six hours from where I live. There's essentially no sixteen gauge shells here or in Duluth or in Minneapolis. There's literally no 410 shells here, there, or anywhere.

 

[huntnpack]

BS. I live in a city of 120K with numerous ammo and gun outlets. No one here has seen 410 shells on the shelf for three years. I have hit all the retailers in Duluth/Superior during the same period. Driving to Havre, Montana and back last year through Minnesota and North Dakota I checked all the stores including Cabelas and Scheels in Grand Forks. Zip for 410. Last month I was in the Twin Cities for four days while my dog had emergency surgery. I checked every outlet including both Cabelas stores, Scheels, Walmart, and numerous other stores. No 410 shells anywhere. Also never saw a box of large rifle primers anywhere. Cabelas did have a few boxes of 16 gauge but only something goofy as I recall (#8 shot Italian stuff?). So, I don't know where your city of 13K is located, but the Federal factory is in Minnesota maybe six hours from where I live. There's essentially no sixteen gauge shells here or in Duluth or in Minneapolis. There's literally no 410 shells here, there, or anywhere.

 

[TheJason]

There's essentially no sixteen gauge shells here or in Duluth or in Minneapolis.

BFD. Ammoseek has made this an absolute non issue.

 

[Gunner46]

Such as patterning your gun is important and that a lot of folks don’t do it. Also, that there’s more to it than choosing your firearm than simply bore size.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not pining to watch more of this guys videos but he wasn’t wrong about a couple things.

At least someone got the point of the video. Thanks.

 

[shrapnel]

The truth of the matter is that a light British 12 gauge with 2 inch 7/8 ounce loads will pattern better than a 20 gauge. A 2 inch 7/8 ounce load doesn’t kick much either, so in reality it is better than the 20 or 16 gauge for pleasant shooting…

 

[tarheel]

The truth of the matter is that a light British 12 gauge with 2 inch 7/8 ounce loads will pattern better than a 20 gauge. A 2 inch 7/8 ounce load doesn’t kick much either, so in reality it is better than the 20 or 16 gauge for pleasant shooting…


View attachment 263078

That old girl is a beauty; you can parade that picture anytime and it will be appreciated.

 

[BrentD]

At least someone got the point of the video. Thanks.

No, I don't thing that was the point of the video. It certainly wasn't in the title nor what he discussed at length. He was simply wrong about 20 gauges being somehow better patterning than a 12. He showed a single, carefully selected pattern from his tuned 20-gauge load next to a single 12-gauge pattern from off the shelf ammo.

He opened saying how much nicer it was to carry a 6# 20 rather than his old 8 lb 12. But never considered the possibility of carrying a 6 lb 12 or even lighter.

The entire video sets up a single 12 gauge gun and cheap factory loads against one particular 20 ga auto with tuned hand loads. It's a strawman comparison that doesn't hold water.

There is nothing wrong with using a 20 for upland hunting. I have one, and I'm poking around for another one myself. But it isn't some sort of magic gauge, and it lacks the flexibility of a 12.

 

[406dn]

Regarding patterning, one pattern from one shot is not that useful. Patterns are random distributions. Your next shot will not produce the same pattern.

In a double barrel, the barrel regulation, having each barrel shoot to the same point, is much more important.

Also, if you are comparing 12 vs 20, you have to tie one arm behind the 12's back before the 20 becomes kinda equal.

 

[OntarioHunter]

No, I don't thing that was the point of the video. It certainly wasn't in the title nor what he discussed at length. He was simply wrong about 20 gauges being somehow better patterning than a 12. He showed a single, carefully selected pattern from his tuned 20-gauge load next to a single 12-gauge pattern from off the shelf ammo.

He opened saying how much nicer it was to carry a 6# 20 rather than his old 8 lb 12. But never considered the possibility of carrying a 6 lb 12 or even lighter.

The entire video sets up a single 12 gauge gun and cheap factory loads against one particular 20 ga auto with tuned hand loads. It's a strawman comparison that doesn't hold water.

There is nothing wrong with using a 20 for upland hunting. I have one, and I'm poking around for another one myself. But it isn't some sort of magic gauge, and it lacks the flexibility of a 12.

Correct on all counts. Carrying a six pound shotgun might be less work but if it doesn't point well, what's the advantage? Shooter does less work but gets fewer birds in the bag and beat up more.

Yes, a 3" twenty gauge can throw out the same 1 oz load as a 2.75" twelve gauge. But can it match 12 gauge velocities?

I know what shooting 1 1/8 oz steel at 1550 fps out of my ten pound auto does to me. I cannot imagine shooting something similar with a fixed breech shotgun weighing four pounds less.

I have seen entire boxes of factory ammo that won't pattern worth shit. Then the next box of same stuff doesn't miss a bird. Especially Kent FastSteel. Inconsistency is not the norm but it's not unusual.

 

[elevatorman]

I dont really get all the hooplah over the 12 vs 20. To me 20 gauge is a youth or for my wife. Mainly because of the smaller size/frame guns it'll come in. 12 gauge is the "standard". I can shoot anything from light target loads to 3.5" shells to deal with any situation a shotgun is needed for. With standard 2.75 shells I just don't see the argument that a 12 gauge is overkill or kicks too much. It's not a cannon. Heck even 3.5 shells ain't bad. I guess my point is for the average guy the 20 gauge is a solution in search of a problem that's not there. Theres so many advantages to a 12, including it being the most common and available ammo, i dont see a good reason to not get a 12.

Or get one of every gauge you want and then you don't have to worry about it anymore.