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Doesn't this already happen with the single state wide general just to a lesser effect?What happens when, so in the southern Region, you have a tough snow year in the Snowy Range, but the Madres and those by Evanston don't? Any tags you cut are going to effect the entire southern half of the State.
Yeah, you can go ahead and shorten the season in the Snowy's, but then the hunting pressure would just shift to the other units in the Southern Region that had longer seasons. Which, would in turn increase harvest, increase hunter density, decrease bull to cow ratio's, etc. You move the problem from area to area.
We were told this is to better manage herd knowing the whole time is just outfitters trying to remove caps. The western region of this propasal is about the size of your home state of wisconsin. How effectively can they manage herds over a area that contains numerous seperate elk populations and environments. This effort if legit should be based at a minimum by a regional office map. What happens if cody experiances a huge die off and labarge 300+ miles away has mild winter whats to regulate where the hunters can use that general? Doesnt make sense! Better to leave alone than this effort.Are you residents upset just because you want to see the non residents with general tags more spread out as opposed to the way it is now with all the non residents packing into the same spots with it being valid everywhere like your tag is?
I get it that you were told one thing when like it has been mentioned already, it's only a smoke screen. For that part I don't blame you for being upset especially if it leads to more nr getting tagsWe were told this is to better manage herd knowing the whole time is just outfitters trying to remove caps. The western region of this propasal is about the size of your home state of wisconsin. How effectively can they manage herds over a area that contains numerous seperate elk populations and environments. This effort if legit should be based at a minimum by a regional office map. What happens if cody experiances a huge die off and labarge 300+ miles away has mild winter whats to regulate where the hunters can use that general? Doesnt make sense! Better to leave alone than this effort.
Yes, into 13 or more regions where the Regional biologists can better control tag numbers and seasons. Is there only 3 deer regions in Wyoming? Gee, I wonder why there's more than 3?I don't know the harvest ratios from nr to resident so I'm spitballing here. If goal is to better manage herds by regions, don't you think a good move - for management - would be to regionalize those resident tags too?
Will there be other opportunities for the public to comment? I only remember sending the public comment letter online.Yes, into 13 or more regions where the Regional biologists can better control tag numbers and seasons. Is there only 3 deer regions in Wyoming? Gee, I wonder why there's more than 3?
This winter is a perfect example, if the deer units were the same as the 3 region elk units, how in the actual hell would you set quota's based on the harsh winter? G and H took a pounding, but other areas were fine.
Going to 3 regions is idiotic, won't work, and just bad policy that makes management even more difficult than just leaving it as is.
My comments were in support of 2 things.
1. 13 regions
2. Caps on NR general tags in each region put in chapter 44.
If not that, keep as is. Mulecreek, JM77 and I have been working this for a few weeks.
You can contact the GF Commissioners directly or attend the Commission meeting in person in July in Wheatland.Will there be other opportunities for the public to comment? I only remember sending the public comment letter online.
Glad to hear you guys are involved in this issue. Is there any talk of it reverting back to the original 13 region proposal?Yes, into 13 or more regions where the Regional biologists can better control tag numbers and seasons. Is there only 3 deer regions in Wyoming? Gee, I wonder why there's more than 3?
This winter is a perfect example, if the deer units were the same as the 3 region elk units, how in the actual hell would you set quota's based on the harsh winter? G and H took a pounding, but other areas were fine.
Going to 3 regions is idiotic, won't work, and just bad policy that makes management even more difficult than just leaving it as is.
My comments were in support of 2 things.
1. 13 regions
2. Caps on NR general tags in each region put in chapter 44.
If not that, keep as is. Mulecreek, JM77 and I have been working this for a few weeks.
Oh, and for clarification, no for Regions for Residents.
Yeah, we're in discussions and the GF and Commission are not going to look very good if they go the 3 region route.Glad to hear you guys are involved in this issue. Is there any talk of it reverting back to the original 13 region proposal?
The honest answer is that the outfitters and GF want to remove the cap. The outfitters motive speaks for itself. The GF is concerned about the Eastern region and a perceived over-population of elk. Elk that can't be hunted for the most part due to outfitted hunting and mostly private land.If going to regions is really about managing the elk herd, why is there no talk of residents going to the same region structure?
It's pretty easy to see this whole region scheme is about spreading out NR hunters and has little if nothing to do with managing elk.
The talk of changing quotas according to winter kill numbers is pure nonsense and smoke and mirrors if it's not applied to residents too.
Residents want everything their way and don't want change. I get it, but let's be honest.
Cant speak to MT but in regards to Wyo Gen unit management, I see bios making changes all the time on a unit-by-unit level. Not all units within a region will have the same dates, legal bull criteria, cow harvest, etc just because they are in the same region. These tools already exist and the managers use them. They will switch season dates on individual units yearly if needed. One unit I frequent over the last 10 years has had the implementation of cow only dates prior to any elk dates. Then back to cows only for a week. Then they moved it to 2 weeks. Then the next year they stopped it all together. Then the next year they went back to two weeks of cows after the any elk dates. On some units they will switch from any elk, to bulls only, to no spikes and back to any elk. These adjustments are made yearly if needed by what the bios are seeing in the field, from checkpoints and surveys. On top of that they will make yearly adjustments to the number of Type 4 and 6 tags based on what they see on the ground, after the winters have had an effect. There may be a lot of gen units but they are not all managed as one collective unit.I'm certainly not an expert on Wy elk, but from my POV this 3 region proposal seems like a move backwards for Wyoming management. Just to the north of Wy, MT general tags that are too broad in terms of surface area, and IMO it's causing problems with hunter dispersal and therefore uneven pressure/harvest on game. It's also not providing accurate location based harvest data for managers for managers to know where people are hunting and where the critters are coming off the landscape. Region 7 mule deer is a perfect example of this. 20 million acres in the region 7 without any real idea which specific areas/units are getting hit the hardest and what that means for long term populations in those areas. IMO, trying to manage these huge regions that contain multiple different habitats and ecosystems within them, also impedes the ability to make finer adjustments to tag allocations specific to each area when needed. This would seem especially true for hard winters that don't hit an entire region evenly, CWD/EHD management actions that are different in each area, etc.
The creation of regions wont change the managers ability to do these things, whether there are 1, 3 or 13. What this plan will do is remove the cap on NR tags. This will devalue public land, non-wilderness Gen elk hunting. It will increase the value into landowners and outfitters pockets for private land or wilderness area elk hunts.
Here is what I know, take it for what it is worth.As i've been interpreting what has been said here i feel like this is what some of us were waiting to be clarified, as it's what i already assumed. It seemed to be getting lost in some of the back and forth that already occurred. The regions don't matter really, especially because all along the general tags have essentially been managed unit by unit anyway; that's why i, at least, was getting confused about the region talk because i felt like the general tags were essentially already micromanaged on a unit by unit basis with season lengths, antlerless, any, and antlered only restrictions. It begs the question of why there even was region talk? which brings us full circle to the removal of the cap right? and the smoke screen, etc.
i think people are hung up on the regions here and think 3 is better than one. it would seem that way on it's face.
it's the removal of the cap that matters and if i were a resident i'd be mega pissed about that too.
It would be disingenuous of me to say there is absolutely nothing wrong with the existing 7250 cap. It has problems, however, I feel the benefits of it far outweigh the problems. Most of the problems from an elk management standpoint have an already existing potential solution that the G&F can use. They just don't like those solutions as much as they do the potential solutions if the cap is gone. In the last 40 years only one species in Wyo has been managed under a cap, elk. In those 40 years MD numbers have declined, pronghorn have declined, moose have declined, bighorn have declined. Elk has increased. Is this 100% due to the cap? No it is not, but its also not 0% due to the cap.