Wyoming Corner Crossing Defense Fund

[COEngineer]

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This 2019 UCLA Law Review Comment by John W. Sheridan does a pretty good job summarizing the current issues regarding the "western checkerboard problem," how it developed and possible solutions, all while using modern language, unlike Camfield and Buford.

The Legal Landscape of America's Landlocked Property, 37 UCLA J. Envtl. L. & Pol'y 229

https://escholarship.org/content/qt1kx576dv/qt1kx576dv_noSplash_fc668f8ed128cea513a924b6199a91bb.pdf?t=q23n5f

This is good stuff. Where Sheridan is discussing eminent domain in the last sentence that starts on page 14 of that pdf: "...courts should easily find that creating ingress and egress routes to previously inaccessible land serves the public interest." A few sentences later, "...to maximize the political palatability of a series of new easements, the BLM should seek to exhaust alternatives to condemnation actions and secure access to public land in more cooperative ways, including through land transfers and conservation easements."

 

[Trayball20]

Donated! If you want change you have to stand up fight for it.

 

[Pestcontrol]

Nothing would legally prohibit a landowner from erecting a 20 foot tall concrete wall at each corner in an L shape. It might coast a few thousand for the concrete but would surely stop a step ladder from crossing.

 

[seeth07]

Nothing would legally prohibit a landowner from erecting a 20 foot tall concrete wall at each corner in an L shape. It might coast a few thousand for the concrete but would surely stop a step ladder from crossing. View attachment 206073

I wondered that too. If I was a landowner that had a corner like this, I would form up a 2x4x10foot tall wall that was on my property. Don't even need to do both sides, just one. The public land user wouldn't then be able to physically cross at the corner unless he brought in an extremely tall ladder. Probably costs like 200 bucks to prevent access. Seems way cheaper than lawyers....

 

[BuzzH]

I wondered that too. If I was a landowner that had a corner like this, I would form up a 2x4x10foot tall wall that was on my property. Don't even need to do both sides, just one. The public land user wouldn't then be able to physically cross at the corner unless he brought in an extremely tall ladder. Probably costs like 200 bucks to prevent access. Seems way cheaper than lawyers....

Doubtful either would be legal. There are set back laws, laws/rules/regulations regarding fencing on public/private boundaries.

Also regulations regarding fencing of blm/private boundaries to impede public access.

Would be a really dumb move on the landowners part...hope they do it. They think they poked the bear by having an out of control sheriff and county attorney cite for corner crossing?

That's baby shit compared to the outcry that would come from what you're proposing.

 

[BuzzH]

Nothing would legally prohibit a landowner from erecting a 20 foot tall concrete wall at each corner in an L shape. It might coast a few thousand for the concrete but would surely stop a step ladder from crossing. View attachment 206073

Not true

 

[Pestcontrol]

Not true

Ok, maybe you could get the largest commercially available 21 foot ladder over that
20 foot tall wall, though my guess is you would touch it a time or two and then the landowner trail cam might catch you. Good luck packing it in though, it only weighs 102 lbs. https://www.amazon.com/Little-Giant-10121-SkyScraper-Adjustable/dp/B0009H5J82

.

 

[BuzzH]

Ok, maybe you could get the largest commercially available 21 foot ladder over that
20 foot tall wall, though my guess is you would touch it a time or two and then the landowner trail cam might catch you. Good luck packing it in though, it only weighs 102 lbs. https://www.amazon.com/Little-Giant-10121-SkyScraper-Adjustable/dp/B0009H5J82

. View attachment 206086

Was referencing your comment that there is nothing legally preventing a landowner from building a wall on a public/ private corner...that is not a true statement.

 

[SummersOff]

I’m definitely not a big government guy. I hunt in Wisconsin and UP of Michigan mainly with an occasional out West hunt. But I think feds should use eminent domain and purchase access to ALL public land.

 

[Pestcontrol]

Was referencing your comment that there is nothing legally preventing a landowner from building a wall on a public/ private corner...that is not a true statement.

Hmmmm………Enlighten me. We aren’t talking about urban city setback rules here, it’s Timbuktu range out there. You may be right but I have seen some 10 foot game proof fences out there before so I know they exist. In this case you wouldn’t need a fence just a barricade across and up to the corner though not infringing upon the public space but would certainly block a step ladder.

 

[Pestcontrol]

I’m definitely not a big government guy. I hunt in Wisconsin and UP of Michigan mainly with an occasional out West hunt. But I think feds should use eminent domain and purchase access to ALL public land.

Though that’s a good idea, it’s going to be expensive. Figure about $8000 a corner, so we’re talking tens of millions of dollars for that as each square section with 4 corners would be $32,000 and that’s on the cheap side if the landowners won’t fight it, likely they might. Land swaps are also another option, though that’s a painstakingly slow process nowadays with BLM EIS required, it would take multiple decades for those.

 

[BuzzH]

Hmmmm………Enlighten me. We aren’t talking about urban city setback rules here, it’s Timbuktu range out there. You may be right but I have seen some 10 foot game proof fences out there before so I know they exist. In this case you wouldn’t need a fence just a barricade across and up to the corner though not infringing upon the public space but would certainly block a step ladder.

BLM resource management plans..
The other 2 corners have property rights as well and what you're proposing impedes on those rights.

Really a bummer for those wealthy landowners that property rights aren't a one way street.

 

[BuzzH]

Though that’s a good idea, it’s going to be expensive. Figure about $8000 a corner, so we’re talking tens of millions of dollars for that as each square section with 4 corners would be $32,000 and that’s on the cheap side if the landowners won’t fight it, likely they might. Land swaps are also another option, though that’s a painstakingly slow process nowadays with BLM EIS required, it would take multiple decades for those.

North Dakota has 66 foot easements along section lines, 30 foot on quarter sections and to the best of my knowledge didn't pay anyone a dime for them.

 

[Pestcontrol]

BLM resource management plans..
The other 2 corners have property rights as well and what you're proposing impedes on those rights.

Really a bummer for those wealthy landowners that property rights aren't a one way street.

As long as they keep the walls on private land, BLM rules are for public lands not private. Good luck getting a setback rule enforced on Private lands in rural America. I’m obviously just playing devils advocate here and hope for sportsmen sake this doesn’t happen but private property rights also have valid rights and building a fence or protection barrier is certainly within the right of a private landowner as long as it stays on private.

 

[Pestcontrol]

North Dakota has 66 foot easements along section lines, 30 foot on quarter sections and to the best of my knowledge didn't pay anyone a dime for them.

That was passed 100+ years ago. I think this is the way to go but a 66 foot long easement surrounding every section will get costly. 66 feet long X 5280 feet is about 350,000 square feet or about 8 acres per side of each section. Also remember the 5th Amendment. The Fifth Amendment protects the right to private property. First, it states that a person may not be deprived of property by the government without “due process of law,” or fair procedures. In addition, it sets limits on the traditional practice of eminent domain, such as when the government takes private property to build a public road. Under the Fifth Amendment, such takings must be for a “public use” and require “just compensation” at market value for the property seized. Market value in Carbon county is low, but in Jackson Hole valley, it could be Millions.

 

[SummersOff]

Though that’s a good idea, it’s going to be expensive. Figure about $8000 a corner, so we’re talking tens of millions of dollars for that as each square section with 4 corners would be $32,000 and that’s on the cheap side if the landowners won’t fight it, likely they might. Land swaps are also another option, though that’s a painstakingly slow process nowadays with BLM EIS required, it would take multiple decades for those.

I agree. Our government wastes money on worse things. Perhaps raising the property taxes on all land touching corners to fair market value taxes. Not agriculture taxes. Hell raise the taxes to 5 or 10 times and hit them with eminent domain. Then the land swap looks much more inviting.

 

[seeth07]

Doubtful either would be legal. There are set back laws, laws/rules/regulations regarding fencing on public/private boundaries.

I would love to know of such a law that would prevent putting a 2x4 in the ground right at each side of the property corner. Basically what elk mountain did only remove the chain and have them be 10 feet tall which would Basically make it impossible to pass. I say I would love to know because I know of one such corner where this is happening and if it's illegal, I'd love to explore my options

 

[Addicting]

10 feet tall which would Basically make it impossible to pass.

I’ve worked off many step ladders that would easily clear 10’. If they are not treated 2x4s you could also squirt a dense salt water on the wood at the base. I would bet that the rodents would just about have it chewed thru by the next season.

 

[SummersOff]

North Dakota has 66 foot easements along section lines, 30 foot on quarter sections and to the best of my knowledge didn't pay anyone a dime for them.

Yes they do. That's the way it has been forever. However, the ranchers have been given their way for many many years. They will not change willingly.

 

[Dakotakid]

North Dakota also has a law restricting nonprofits from buying land…

I think the BLM fencing reg link is listed in the Durfee hills thread.