Wyoming Corner Crossing Defense Fund

[ccc23454]

There is an exponentially higher odds of getting state charges filed then there would be getting federal charges filed in a case like this. Sad, but that’s the way it is.

Agreed but none is absolutely the worst option

 

[idahohuntr]

Great article from Christine with interviews from a few Huntalkers. Try not to throw up in your mouth when you read Jim Magagna's response.

Public Raises More Than $50,000 to Defend Hunters Ticketed for Corner Crossing in Wyoming

When four non-resident hunters were charged with criminal trespass for corner crossing in Wyoming, the public responded by raising funds.

www.outdoorlife.com

In the article (and this thread) there is discussion about State's modifying laws to explicitly make corner crossing illegal. I don't share those fears for a variety of reasons, but has anyone evaluated/explored what sort of actions/re-actions would be available to federal landowners/land management agencies if states went down this path?

If my neighbor calls the cops because I 'corner-crossed' to get to my adjacent parcel...I'm damn sure not going to allow him to access my land. I'm all for property rights protection, but it needs to be equal regardless of private or public ownership. And if certain legislatures are beholden to one political party, maybe a federal government that is controlled by an opposite party would have legislative options to discourage state corner crossing bans?

 

[Sytes]

And if certain legislatures are beholden to one political party, maybe a federal government that is controlled by an opposite party would have legislative options to discourage state corner crossing bans?

Thanks for the link to the article though, IMO - once you play the one side fixes the other side's f-ups by choosing political sides, you're likely to begin cutting off support as it turns red vs blue. My humble opinion of course. YMMV.

 

[BuzzH]

Thanks for the link to the article though, IMO - once you play the one side fixes the other side's f-ups by choosing political sides, you're likely to begin cutting off support as it turns red vs blue. My humble opinion of course. YMMV.

I'm tired of your Red VS Blue crap on every post and every issue.

I can tell you that there are many sportsmen on both sides of the aisle that care about only one thing, and that is access to our public lands.

It would be more fair in the case of corner crossing that this is a have's VS. have not's case, or even a Wealthy VS average blue collar issue. Maybe even an issue of vague law, lack of dealing with it, easement issue, and a host of other things that are absolutely pertinent.

But it simply is NOT an issue of Red VS. Blue. I know many people that are involved in this case that are strong R supporters, that are fighting this corner crossing issue, and with gusto. They are not asking anyone what their political affiliation is to help support this case. They are pouring their time, money and effort into this case and the ONLY person I've even heard make this a R VS D battle is you.

Don't make this issue something it clearly is not.

 

[Sytes]

I'm tired of your Red VS Blue crap on every post and every issue.

Buzz, there are many aspects I tire of your comments as well, though... we continue. Accolades for your efforts here.

It is NOT an R vs D issue unless someone makes it one. Please quote me where I share this IS an R vs D issue Otherwise... tire away.

Let me quote the words shared again. You're a blind bat if you missed it.

And if certain legislatures are beholden to one political party, maybe a federal government that is controlled by an opposite party would have legislative options to discourage state corner crossing bans?

 

[Pestcontrol]

Thanks for the link to the article though, IMO - once you play the one side fixes the other side's f-ups by choosing political sides, you're likely to begin cutting off support as it turns red vs blue. My humble opinion of course. YMMV.

In Wyoming this has been tried at least 3 times I am aware of in the past 30 years. Once for affirming corner hopping and legalizing it and twice by the Stock Growers Association which tried to make it Illegal. These bills never make it out of committee. https://wyoleg.gov/2011/Introduced/HB0171.pdf

 

[Pestcontrol]

I have two questions about this.

1. Most private/public 4-corners cannot be found with the precision that the corner in question can. Few have identifying fences (rarely precisely on boundaries anyway), nor permanent survey markers. Anyone that claims OnX and other "civilian" GPS systems can precisely locate corners is lyin'. So would something "in the spirit" of corner crossing be what is eventually gained? I don't see anyone paying to legally measure and mark corners anytime soon.

2. With respect to passing over private property, I believe in most states, including WY and MT, that it is legal to float over private property on a river. It certainly is on my property here in Iowa as well. So, what's the difference if my boot passes over someone's property in naked air or in the bottom of a canoe? It would seem that river floating really does have something to say about this passing over private property. Or maybe I'm all wet.

In Carbon County more than 90% of the corner pins are in place, I personally almost always can find them when out Rock hounding and they were surveyed in the 1960s. They are large brass corner pins which stick up about 14-18 inches above ground. They were all surveyed long prior to GPS days so that begs the question of how accurate they are but my argument would be they met the criteria for an established survey at that time, though many are off by as much as a couple hundred feet according to multiple GPS units I carry to corroborate and triangulate them. If there is no surveyed post you have zero chance for finding that corner without very sophisticated and expensive professional surveyor GPS units. If this case is successful this might be a good source for hunter donations to have all potential corners surveyed which would open up access, possibly even Access Yes funds.

 

[idahohuntr]

For the record, I dont see it as a red vs blue issue either. Public lands access appeals to all political persuasions.

My point was, state legislatures can pass laws and so can the feds...sometimes those governments are controlled by opposing parties which can mitigate the bad ideas centrists loathe from either political extreme.

 

[Sytes]

Fair enough. Quality response.

 

[antlerradar]

I have two questions about this.

1. Most private/public 4-corners cannot be found with the precision that the corner in question can. Few have identifying fences (rarely precisely on boundaries anyway), nor permanent survey markers. Anyone that claims OnX and other "civilian" GPS systems can precisely locate corners is lyin'. So would something "in the spirit" of corner crossing be what is eventually gained? I don't see anyone paying to legally measure and mark corners anytime soon.

2. With respect to passing over private property, I believe in most states, including WY and MT, that it is legal to float over private property on a river. It certainly is on my property here in Iowa as well. So, what's the difference if my boot passes over someone's property in naked air or in the bottom of a canoe? It would seem that river floating really does have something to say about this passing over private property. Or maybe I'm all wet.

I can not speak for the rest of the west, But just about all the corners in SE Montana are marked with pins. Not that hard to find them, Quite a few of them have piles of rocks marking them.

 

[Irrelevant]

All this talk of pinned corners is fascinating. I don't think I've EVER seen one in WA.

 

[bullbugle307]

And the cynic in me says those pins are gonna start disappearing quick if crossing over one becomes allowed.

 

[BrentD]

All this talk of pinned corners is fascinating. I don't think I've EVER seen one in WA.

I've seen USGS survey markers. Rarely at a section intersect. Never 18" tall. If they were private property corners, and was I looking for them, I would have trespassed multiple times before finding any of them.

 

[Southern Elk]

Meateater discussed the issue on their podcast today. I haven’t listened yet, but hopefully the fund gets another big bounce after today.

 

[Conrad8899]

And the cynic in me says those pins are gonna start disappearing quick if crossing over one becomes allowed.

I am not %100 sure but I think it might be illegal to mess with a survey marker... Maybe sum one else can comment on this...

 

[bullbugle307]

Oh its definitely is illegal. I'm not disputing that.

 

[antlerradar]

I am not %100 sure but I think it might be illegal to mess with a survey marker... Maybe sum one else can comment on this...

Most of the ones I have seen have the fine stamped right on the marker. Of course $250 is not near the deterrent now that it was 100 years ago.

 

[Bullbrl]

What are the chances that the landowners fences are not "exactly" on the property boundaries between these pins? I would imagine that there is a high probability that some of these fences are actually on public property. Is there any way to make sure these fences are not encroaching on public land?.....just spitballing but if a state tries to pass a law making corner crossing illegal then could something be written to make sure "all" boundaries are correctly marked? The time and cost for a landowner to move an incorrect fence might make some kind of compromise feasible.

 

[RobG]

Most of the ones I have seen have the fine stamped right on the marker. Of course $250 is not near the deterrent now that it was 100 years ago.

About $7000 in today’s dollars. I wonder what the actual fine is.

 

[bullbugle307]

Most of the ones I have seen have the fine stamped right on the marker. Of course $250 is not near the deterrent now that it was 100 years ago.

Yep, all the ones I've seen are stamped on the marker too. That doesn't stop people from taking them though.

The fine for taking them ought to be a hefty one though.