Wyo Wildlife Task Force and the new outfitter/landowner draw proposal

[shootbrownelk]

I just saw inflation from last year at this exact time is at 9.9%. So shouldn't all big game tags go up 9.9% across the board just to keep up with it? Everyone hunting this fall on last falls prices are getting a steal!

If you think inflation has only gone up 9.9% then you haven't bought gas or diesel or groceries lately.

 

[Rhcuam]

ah so you do get my point?

if not, you'll get it eventually.

I don’t think you get your point.
Is it Cam and Joe are gonna buy up all the ground and hunt it themselves????
I think your point is that you think that every Tom, Dick, and Harry deserve a tag or deserve to have the price of tags kept low so they can afford it.
If you want to go hunting you will make it a priority. You are owed nothing. And if you can’t afford to go I’m sorry about your luck.

 

[TheTone]

When I was a technician for a state agency, we went out and did habitat work on federal lands. Increase cost of licenses, and put the new money to those types of projects. It's that frickin simple.

You ever see the bumper sticker, THINK HABITAT. Well, THINK HABITAT!!! How do we make the habitat better. Gee, first thing we're gonna need is a lot of money. Where's that money gonna come from. Us! Unless we're too worried about our own opportunity and find every excuse in the book not to do it.

I also sprayed a crap ton on federal lands as a tech. I really wish it was that simple. Land purchase isn’t as simple as the state having money. I’ve seen willing buyer/seller agreements shot down by legislators and now that land is back in private hands. I’m all about well funded agencies and staff at agencies earning a fair wage.

I don’t think landowner tags, outfitter tags and auction tags are the right way to get there

 

[TOGIE]

I don’t think you get your point.
Is it Cam and Joe are gonna buy up all the ground and hunt it themselves????
I think your point is that you think that every Tom, Dick, and Harry deserve a tag or deserve to have the price of tags kept low so they can afford it.
If you want to go hunting you will make it a priority. You are owed nothing. And if you can’t afford to go I’m sorry about your luck.

stop it with this "you think you deserve a tag" red herring. please show me where i said. i'll wait.

the point is that if the trend of outfitter welfare and the continued attempts at making hunting only available to the rich and esteemed continue, like the TF seems to keen on doing. then add in some of these new found opinions in here about how "it wouldn't be a bad thing to price people out so my draw odds get better" then the only people who will have the means to hunt will be the cams and joes of the world. that is, if we continue to take such propositions to their ultimate and logical conclusion.

i have plenty of money available for hunting, i can assure you. that is not the issue here.

if you are against my points, then you must be for 1) outfitter welfare tags and, 2) tags only being available and attainable by the wealthy. right? (see it's not hard to put words in peoples mouths)

 

[RIVER_RAT]

Come on, You think either of those individuals do whole lot of hunting on public land.

stop it with this "you think you deserve a tag" red herring. please show me where i said. i'll wait.

the point is that if the trend of outfitter welfare and the continued attempts at making hunting only available to the rich and esteemed continue, like the TF seems to keen on doing, along with some of these new found opinions in here about how "it wouldn't be a bad thing to price people out so my draw odds get better" then the only people who will have the means to hunt will be the cams and joes of the world. that is, if we continue to take such propositions to their ultimate and logical conclusion.

i have plenty of money available for hunting, i can assure you. that is not the issue here.

if you are against my points, then you must be for 1) outfitter welfare tags and, 2) tags only being available and attainable by the wealthy. right? (see it's not hard to put words in peoples mouths)

So what about the people that can't afford the tag prices right now? Man that sure isn't fair to them either.

 

[TOGIE]

So what about the people that can't afford the tag prices right now? Man that sure isn't fair to them either.

that's just life. there's always someone somewhere that can't afford something.

but further raising prices with the sole goal of pricing more people out is a bad mentality.

what the #*^@#* am i speaking mandarin chinese here?

i must be. never thought such a simple concept would be so difficult.

 

[Deleted member 18333]

that's just life. there's always someone somewhere that can't afford something.

but further raising prices with the sole goal of pricing more people out is a bad mentality.

what the #*^@#* am i speaking mandarin chinese here?

i must be. never thought such a simple concept would be so difficult.

He understands what you're saying he just disagrees with you. Saying it more or including expletive's is not gong to change his mind. Or anyone else that disagrees with you for that matter.

 

[TOGIE]

He understands what you're saying he just disagrees with you. Saying it more or including expletive's is not gong to change his mind. Or anyone else that disagrees with you for that matter.

people are not arguing against the points i'm making. they are arguing against a point they're making up themselves and saying i made it. if people didn't do that maybe the expletives wouldn't happen.

what is that called a straw man?

 

[bts09]

Oh OK now we want to do the “fair” thing.
I think it’s unfair that I can’t hunt wilderness in Wyoming. I think it’s unfair I only get 10% of the tags in some states. I think it’s unfair there are a handful of units I would have to live to be 473 years old to be able to draw to hunt elk in. I think it’s unfair that I was born later than some and I did not get to participate as early in the point schemes.

Life isn’t fair. I make hunting a priority. You do not deserve a tag in any other state than the one you currently live in. You seem to have just as much of a case of the me me me’s as anyone, in the fact that you think you deserve tags.

Whatever dude. Some of us are trying to add constructive thoughts to this discussion.

 

[jlmatthew]

but holy shit does CPW have a huge ass budget and i'm not sure we're keeping more habitat intact than anyone else, probably less.

makes you wonder where its all going?

now back to Wyoming

 

[Pucky Freak]

I’ve watched the NR price debate on this thread and several others. My takeaway is there is a Goldilocks price point that balances the preservation of the NA Model of Conservation goals of democratized hunting opportunity with public trust doctrine.

Let’s say the free market value of a WY elk tag is $3000. If you charge both R’s and NR’s that price, You completely fail on both goals. If you charge both R’s and NR’s $50, you fail on public trust by selling out R’s resource to NR’s for very little in return. If you discount resident’s fee to $50 and charge NR’s $3000, it’s a mixed result. You harm residents because you drain your pool of NR conservation advocates and prevent NR family and friends joining you to hunt.

So what’s the best price to discount the NR tag below market value? That’s a fine debate. $500 would be cheaper than any other state and seems a bit of a sellout. $2000 seems a bit too high. Somewhere in the middle, I suppose. A huge chunk of that money can and should be used for habitat and resident access. Wins all around.

If your motivation is to price other hunters out to boost your own odds of obtaining a tag, whether you are a DIY or a card-carrying WOGA member, I feel that is a poor motivation.

 

[TOGIE]

I’ve watched the NR price debate on this thread and several others. My takeaway is there is a Goldilocks price point that balances the preservation of the NA Model of Conservation goals of democratized hunting opportunity with public trust doctrine.

Let’s say the free market value of a WY elk tag is $3000. If you charge both R’s and NR’s that price, You completely fail on both goals. If you charge both R’s and NR’s $50, you fail on public trust by selling out R’s resource to NR’s for very little in return. If you discount resident’s fee to $50 and charge NR’s $3000, it’s a mixed result. You harm residents because you drain your pool of NR conservation advocates and prevent NR family and friends joining you to hunt.

So what’s the best price to discount the NR tag below market value? That’s a fine debate. $500 would be cheaper than any other state and seems a bit of a sellout. $2000 seems a bit too high. Somewhere in the middle, I suppose. A huge chunk of that money can and should be used for habitat and resident access. Wins all around.

If your motivation is to price other hunters out to boost your own odds of obtaining a tag, whether you are a DIY or a card-carrying WOGA member, I feel that is a poor motivation.

careful, based on what i gather from others in this thread it sounds like what you're actually saying is "i'm not saving enough money to hunt and therefore deserve cheap tags"

whoda thunk

 

[Pucky Freak]

careful, based on what i gather from others in this thread it sounds like what you're actually saying is "i'm not saving enough money to hunt and therefore deserve cheap tags"

whoda thunk

Haha…either a little truth in there, or else a weak argument. I have no issue saving for 2 years for a tag. I don’t deserve crap. Grateful to have ANY NR opportunity. But I simply cannot afford market price of an elk tag. I’d hang it up, and I wouldn’t whine about it either.

 

[Rhcuam]

that's just life. there's always someone somewhere that can't afford something.

but further raising prices with the sole goal of pricing more people out is a bad mentality.

what the #*^@#* am i speaking mandarin chinese here?

i must be. never thought such a simple concept would be so simple

The fact of the matter is the demand for tags in Wyoming and most Western states are so high currently that the market would support a 30-50% increase in tag cost. Yes it will price people out but as you said “that’s just life.” Deal with it.
And I’m totally fine if it prices people out. I’m fine if it limits people getting into the game. That’s just life.

 

[PrairieHunter]

that fact is irrelevant.

what's relevant here is a hope or hypothetical attempt to further change the status quo for the better and benefit of those with more. i.e. being a selfish bastard.

all these things are antithetical to the north american model. be it outfitter welfare or hoping to price people out of the game for the benefit of, what's the word? oh yeah, "yourself" or "me"

me me me

no one will be laughing when cam and joe are the only ones tagging out bull elk anymore.

It's very relevant.

You are just getting upset about something because it's true.

Poor people do not have the same opportunities as those with $, that's not going to change. Doesn't matter if it's a concert, sporting event, hunting tag, theme park, cruise, etc... it all comes down to $ if you want to go.

It's not going to change no matter how mad you get, names you call people, how much you hate social media, etc...

 

[TOGIE]

It's very relevant.

You are just getting upset about something because it's true.

Poor people do not have the same opportunities as those with $, that's not going to change. Doesn't matter if it's a concert, sporting event, hunting tag, theme park, cruise, etc... it all comes down to $ if you want to go.

It's not going to change no matter how mad you get, names you call people, how much you hate social media, etc...

I don’t give a rip if people are priced out, I don’t give a rip if I’m priced out.

How many times do I have to say that I don’t care if wyoming raises everything 400%.

Let me be clearer. I. Could. Not. Care. Less.

What I do care about is the motivation behind the price increase. Just like the outfitter welfare.

I’m upset about outfitters trying get welfare tags for the benefit of rich clients and commercial profit. and I’m upset that some people think we should raise prices for the sole purpose of pricing people out so that those with means can have more for themselves. It’s just like outfitter welfare. Two sides to the same coin. If you cant find the nuance in what I’m talking about its hopeless.

 

[TheJason]

Not greed here. I am part of the common family. I bust my ass doing extra work all year to afford any hunt I feel like taking. Maybe yall shouldn't be worried with other "common folk" and be more worried about yourself making extra cash for more opportunities. Anybody can make an extra $1000 to $1500 a year just by doing extra stuff on the weekends once a month. So get that crappy excuse out of here.

If raising DEA prices create a better hunt, then I am for it. If that means less people can afford the tags so be it.
If less people can afford the tags and that means I have the opportunity to get more or better hunts, again I’m all for it.

that’s all well and good till someone with more money than you corks your ass, and you wake up realizing we have a European model.

 

[Irrelevant]

European model.

This is sorta the issue with our classic American system right? With regard to wildlife, it's rather egalitarian and doesn't abide by the principles of capitalism.

VS the European system of wildlife management, which is entirely capitalistic

And that discrepancy sends people into fits, because we all of a sudden are forced to look at this one topic (and all the other public services) differently than where we go to buy a cheeseburger and fries.

 

[Rhcuam]

that’s all well and good till someone with more money than you corks your ass, and you wake up realizing we have a European model.

We have always had to buy tags.
Tag prices are going to increase.
If you can’t afford the tag increases, go play golf or something.
Have tag costs ever decreased?
The North American model of hunting has been pay to play for quite some time. Whether you realize that or not is not my problem.

 

[RIVER_RAT]

that’s all well and good till someone with more money than you corks your ass, and you wake up realizing we have a European model.

Well that sounds painful.