WY moose sheep point fee increase

[BuzzH]

A state's wildlife resources are not a community asset that all citizens should have a chance to enjoy. We already went through this...wyoming doesn't have to allow any nr tags to be issued for any species. I do agree that the prices are high...I pay them in 8 or 10 states a year and feel fortunate that I'm even afforded the opportunity to apply as a nr. I'm not wealthy either...but do have my priorities figured out.

 

[EBOLAVIRS]

Unless you had a bundle of points already, it makes almost no sense to buy msg points in Wyoming. This just makes that decision even easier while making sure your average 12 year old never stands a chance of hunting msg in Wyoming.

 

[VikingsGuy]

A state's wildlife resources are not a community asset that all citizens should have a chance to enjoy. We already went through this...wyoming doesn't have to allow any nr tags to be issued for any species. I do agree that the prices are high...I pay them in 8 or 10 states a year and feel fortunate that I'm even afforded the opportunity to apply as a nr. I'm not wealthy either...but do have my priorities figured out.

But for clarity's sake that is only true on federal lands because when a very old and suspect SCOTUS case came into question a senate majority leader snuck in an 11th hour rider to make it statutory law -- an action that could be reversed anytime that Speaker Paul Ryan, or any other non-western states powerbroker, would care to pull the same trick. So you are right - today the law allows unfettered state F&G greed on this topic, but it is not safe to say that will always be the case (or quite frankly should be the case).

As for priorities, there are plenty of working families who do much tougher jobs than you and I with very little left to show for it. A "Randy N under $1,000 'lope hunt" for a father/kid may be the limits even if made a priority. I really don't care about Sheep/Moose/Goat, fine make that the "sport of kings", but as you noted other lesser species could see these hikes too -- there needs to be a line somewhere.

As for the theory WY can do what it damn well chooses, I find that cheeky for a state that has 40% of it's budget funded by the other 49 states and is the 2nd largest per capita beneficiary of federal funding. And this is coming from a federalist at heart.

 

[BuzzH]

Hunting as a nr is not a right...and ime the tag costs are an easy excuse to not get off the couch. A father doesn't need a $300 tag for themselves to take their kid pronghorn hunting in Wyoming...seen it last week.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Hunting as a nr is not a right...

It will only take 1 sentence in one federal thousand page omnibus funding bill to change that as it relates to federal land, so in my opinion it is a short sighted excuse for price gouging.

As for cost of 'lope hunting, I was basing my concern on your statement to expect significant raises on those as well, "Its only a matter of time before they reach the statutory limit on them as well, is my guess."

 

[BuzzH]

Do you know what the statutory limit is for preference points on elk, deer, pronghorn? Do you know what the commission said tuesday regarding same? Do you even know what the license fees are for youth? Point fees? You do realize great pronghorn areas can be drawn with few, if any points right? I think you need to get your facts straight.

 

[belly-deep]

Sounds like draw odds might go up. I'm staying in.

 

[LCH]

Anybody can afford a $150 point fee if it's a priority. The problem for most folks is that if they are serious about hunting a moose, sheep, or goat in the lower 48 sometime in their life then they must play the game everywhere, not just Wyoming. When you get to several thousand $$ a year for a slim chance at ever drawing a tag, while still spending the $$ required to hunt the more common species every year, then that takes it out of the realm of possibility for a lot of people.

I don't know if the high prices are right or wrong, and I have no dog in the fight. Someday I'll hunt a moose in Canada or Alaska, and I don't really care too much about hunting a goat or sheep at this time.. probably because I've never seen it as a realistic opportunity. But it's silly I think to pretend that NR tag and point fees can't price someone out.

 

[1_pointer]

If one decides to play the NR application game, always keep in mind that you are at the mercy of politicians (commissions to an extent as well) that you cannot vote for or against. You play the game by their rules or you don't. No amount of talking by NRs is going to change that much if at all.

I concur that Idaho has the best and fairest system, which I hope doesn't change as I like hunting in ID.

 

[Deleted member 18333]

My 12 year old can, and will, make $150 in two months of mowing lawns or shoveling snow for the neighbors. If he chooses to spend that on PP's in some other State, Penguins gear, candy or save it is up to him. At least I will know what his priorities are.

Is $150 is too high, the correct amount, or too low? I don't know. Seems high to me but I don't think it is necessarily the breaking point of whether it is worth it or not.

 

[buckbull]

This. Hunter numbers are decreasing, but the popularity of western hunting is increasing amongst the ranks of current hunters. Recessions greatly decrease that popularity.

I'm not sure where you guys get your information concerning hunter numbers. The number of hunting licenses has increased by almost 1 million over since 2014 according to the US Fish and Wildlife Service.

Licenses sold per year in the US.
15,486,123 - 2017
15,413,638 - 2016
14,843,895 - 2015
14,597,091 - 2014

https://wsfrprograms.fws.gov/Subpages/LicenseInfo/Hunting.htm

From what I have read the biggest reason for the reversal in the decline of hunter participation is the amount of woman now taking up the sport.

 

[buckbull]

Supply and demand will dictate prices. I suspect there will still be more demand and than supply after these increases.

I doubt the fee increases will deter that many from playing the game.

Your best bet for hunting sheep and moose is to take the points money you pay, invest the money, and hunt in Canada. You can hunt moose in Newfoundland cheaper than what you would have in the points game in Wyoming alone.

 

[brymoore]

I'm not sure where you guys get your information concerning hunter numbers. The number of hunting licenses has increased by almost 1 million over since 2014 according to the US Fish and Wildlife Service.

Licenses sold per year in the US.
15,486,123 - 2017
15,413,638 - 2016
14,843,895 - 2015
14,597,091 - 2014

https://wsfrprograms.fws.gov/Subpages/LicenseInfo/Hunting.htm

From what I have read the biggest reason for the reversal in the decline of hunter participation is the amount of woman now taking up the sport.

You're quoting numbers during a rising portion of the economic cycle. A recession will happen and hunter numbers will drop.

 

[buckbull]

You're quoting numbers during a rising portion of the economic cycle. A recession will happen and hunter numbers will drop.

You can contribute the increase to anything you want but that doesn't change the fact that hunter numbers are increasing.

 

[MNHunter]

Yikes...$150 now. I bailed on Moose a few years ago but will stay in for sheep. Dreamers gotta dream.

 

[VikingsGuy]

I'm not sure where you guys get your information concerning hunter numbers.

I am in no position to argue which statistics are right, but here is a commonly cited study that suggests the opposite:
(https://wildlifemanagement.institut...eases-2016-survey-wildlife-related-recreation)

One possibility is that the numbers of hunters is down but number of licenses purchased per hunter is up. For example, a few years ago I bought one MN hunting license + MN pheasant stamp. In the coming season I will have a MN license, SD license and WY license.

 

[LCH]

You can contribute the increase to anything you want but that doesn't change the fact that hunter numbers are increasing.

I bought 8 hunting licenses and 4 tags this year. Are hunter numbers increasing, or are existing hunters just hunting more?

*edit* posted concurrently w/vikingsguy

 

[VikingsGuy]

You can contribute the increase to anything you want but that doesn't change the fact that hunter numbers are increasing.

Licenses are increasing, not hunters, according to Fed WS (the source of your numbers too).

edit: (sorry, more cross posting with LCH)

 

[brymoore]

You're quoting numbers during a rising portion of the economic cycle. A recession will happen and hunter numbers will drop.

Let's talk trend analysis from your link:
License sales:
1958 - 14,138,182
1971 - 15,977,873
1990 - 16,257,074
2000 - 15,045,294
2007 - 14,726,427 pre recession
2010 - 14,447,040 post recession
2015 - 14,843,895
2017 - 15,486,123

The overall trend is downward since 1970. I'd call 2017 an economic bubble. Furthermore, states are gaming the license sale system to maximize Pittman Robertson reimbursement.

 

[JLS]

The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service has been conducting a nationwide survey of hunting and fishing participants every five years since 1955, primarily for the benefit of fish and wildlife agencies across the country as they try to understand participation trends in these activities.

The recent release of the preliminary 2016 survey indicates the gloomy fact that the number of hunters — in a steady decline for many years now — has experienced a sharp drop-off of over 2 million hunters since the last survey in 2011.

Since 1980, the overall nationwide number of hunters has dropped from nearly 18 million to the current level of 10.5 million

http://www.outdoornews.com/2017/09/21/hunter-participation-numbers-continue-drop-sorry-situation/

Licenses sold doesn't necessarily equal hunter participation. Numbers are declining. Period.