Would you still hunt with....

[1_pointer]

Pointer its more than just how we value animals...at least to me. I think its more about how I/we conduct ourselves when afield. For the most part, the only person who will know what happened for sure, will be you. Your odds of being caught are slim...so really its up to each person to decide how they want to conduct themselves.

I don't disagree. But, I do know that many folks conduct themselves differently when pursuing different animals.

Either way I could care less who Moosie hunts with, I won't think any less of him either way. However, there are certain things I won't tolerate in the field and won't hunt with those who insist on doing those things.

 

[Moosie]

Hey Moosie, not intending to bust your balls here, but I'm curious why you completely disregard private property rights -- that's exactly what you're doing by saying you'd shorten your trip through private. Where's the respect, like it or not?

Actually you ARE busting my balls.. but I specifically put that post up to see if anyone would I'm Ok with it, really If I was worried about getting called out I wouldn't have publicly posted that I've done something wrong in the past. However big or small.

What I meant (for further clarity) is that there is some Private Property where I hunt. Owned by several anti "people" types. Maybe rightfully so... reguardless. It's posted by the road but not posted on the other 3 sides. I was coming out one night, it was Snowy, wet, yaddy yaddy. The property wasn't posted and legally it needed to be. I dropped down the canyon and walked out the road. I didn't want to hike all the way around.

Sure as heck a person was driving in and busted my chops. I was OK with it because it wasn't posted properly. Was I crossing property that was Private, yeh I can't deny that. Could I fight it in court and win ? Also yes I'm sure. Call it my Devil side but thats how it is...... Sometimes you need to know the rules to know how to get around them.

Do I make a habit of crossing private property. Definately not.

 

[IdahoBugler]

Moosie,

Question for you? Would you hunt with him if he wasn't putting you on a big deer? You talk about going with him because he seems like a good guy and that he made a mistake. I know what you are going to say but still wonder if you would be going if say it was a doe hunt.

I know you well and know how you feel about game laws so I have no worries that everything will be legit on your hunt. I just have to say that you will get some ribbing on the issue and a lot of people will definetly look down on you for it. It's up to you how you take it and honestly shouldn't blame them for doing so. I have talked with Jeff also he seems like a good guy but again this is just like internet dating so who knows what your getting.

I would hunt with Oscar even if he chooses to go with Jeff.

 

[elk_hunter]

Hehe, indeed.

Moose-man...I was under the impression that when a sportsman set foot onto land, if he doesn't know where he's stepping, he best not step. I know in Colorado, I've seen DOW office personnel in Steamboat get pretty adamant to guys buying tags that they watch where they step, regardless of boundary postings (since the idea is it doesn't matter since maps outline what is okay to hike and what is off limits -- maybe not down to the exact foot, but still), especially when those guys are wanting to hunt on property lines of private ranches...or else risk getting nailed for trespassing. Like you mentioned, I take the safe and ethical approach and leave a buffer so as not to even come close to being in trouble with trespassing.

In your case, you knowingly and intentionally trespassed because you didn't want to walk around the property. Man, that's hard for me to understand. I mean, would you want people tromping through your yard because "they felt like it"?

Maybe they are "anti people types" because people like you trespass and think it's OK but it pisses them off to no end because they aren't respected.

 

[elk_hunter]

Oh hell, I'd hunt with Moosie too...but I'll be walking around (not through) private property. hump

 

[BuzzH]

Actually, the law on trespassing in regard to hunting is different in Idaho.

 

[elk_hunter]

Actually, the law on trespassing in regard to hunting is different in Idaho.

Interesting; how so?

 

[Blue Yummies]

Next time I need to head to the 7-11 I will walk through your back yard with a loaded gun, because it was quicker. Then when you come out to bitch, I will say "Oh is that what that fence was for", but I will fight it because you didnt post it properly.

 

[AZ402]

Next time I need to head to the 7-11 I will walk through your back yard with a loaded gun, because it was quicker. Then when you come out to bitch, I will say "Oh is that what that fence was for", but I will fight it because you didnt post it properly.

Do you work the night shift or the day shift?

 

[Moosie]

IDBugler.... I'm OK with the ribbing. I do understand both sides. I also think some might look at me less, although I hope not.

It's not just the chance at a good buck. He's by far not the only one that knows were a Buck is in Colorado. I think I have a Book of people I could probably get info out of, would you agree ? I have tons of info and access. You know that. MAybe I'm doing it for a "point" Maybe it's the wrong point. Jeff also told me when I asked him that he wouldn't have to let anyone know he went not to cause me any grief. (He is legally alowed to accompany someone). Maybe I could have done that but if I was worried, I jsut wouldn't have invited him, no ?

As far as a Doe hunt, You know my feelings on does and wouldn't drive to Lowman for one let alone Colorado. Although I'd drive to AZ for a piggy, strange huh ?

I also don't think I ever said he made a mistake.. ? I might have but I didn't intend to do so if I did. Most things are done on purpose. Thats the mistake he made, if anything.

I do like the point the 1-pointer brought up, and thats part of my point as well. How people put values or justifications on different situations and animals.

 

[Moosie]

Do you work the night shift or the day shift?

.. thats funny

Blue Yummies, If you wanted to Hop my 6' Dog eared Cedar fence to get to work thats OK. It's one thing to live in the hills and not have a Fence then to live in the city with a solid 6' fence.

Idaho is a bit differnt. I'll have some time tonight to post the laws unless someone posts them before I get to.

 

[Blue Yummies]

It just doesn't seem right that people feel that its okay to trespass on someone elses property when they are hunting. Apparently some in the group couldn't get past the use of 7-11 as a example.
Hopefully no ranchers are reading your posts, your pretty much saying its okay to use there land at your leisure.

 

[BuzzH]

Moosie, did a bit of looking for about 5 minutes...I think at least one deer was left to rot. As per the article and the incident(s) in question. Serial Poacher and definately not by mistake, but by design.

Jeff Coldwell, 43, of Firestone, Colorado recently pled guilty to poaching charges

In May of 2006, Jeff Coldwell pleaded guilty to illegal possession of three or more deer in Weld County. In addition to the loss of the illegally taken wildlife, he forfeited his muzzleloader and the court fined him $7,500 with 36 months probation. Coldwell also pled guilty to abuse of public records in Adams County and received a 2 year deferred sentence for false statements made regarding a bear license. The courts donated a portion of his fine to Operation Game Thief.

The abuses also led the Colorado Wildlife Commission to suspend Coldwell’s privilege of applying for, purchasing, or exercising the benefits conferred by all DOW licenses for 20 years. His license privileges are also suspended in 22 Wildlife Violator Compact states.

It all began with a hunch. Wildlife Officer Windi Padia contacted Jeff Coldwell while on ATV patrol in Game Management Unit 20 during the 2005 muzzleloader season. Coldwell had a muzzleloader, but no hunting license in his possession. Noticing a clump of deer hair near his truck, Padia inquired further, but Coldwell denied taking a deer. Coldwell was visibly nervous throughout the contact and told Padia he had been hunting with a family member who had a deer license for GMU 18, about seven miles to the west and over the Continental Divide. After checking the records for Coldwell’s license, Officer Padia found that it was valid for GMU 20 only.

Additional Wildlife Officers, Aimee Ryel and John Koehler, were engaged to conduct interviews in Coldwell’s hometown, whereupon he admitted he had taken a large mule deer buck illegally in GMU 18 and had already transported the cape out of the unit by backpack. Another deer was shot by the licensed family member and both animals were left to rot. Officers hiked to the kill site and located the trophy-quality skinned buck, as well as a quartered buck. The meat was only salvageable on one of the animals.

Now, the full arm of the law reached in--a search warrant was obtained for Coldwell’s residence yielding evidence that Coldwell used another family member's license to tag a buck in 2000. Padia seized Coldwell’s computer and found further evidence of a wildlife violation--emails from Coldwell showed that he had gone bear hunting in 2005 and finding that people were camped near his hunting spot, promptly told a representative from the DOW that he was not able to go on his bear hunt due to medical issues. Six bear preference points were reinstated to Coldwell based on his statements. This fraudulent activity led Officer Padia to charge him with abuse of public records. After disposition of the case in Adams County, his bear preference points were revoked.

In connection with the case, two members of Jeff Coldwell’s family have received citations for wildlife violations and have chosen to pay their fines.

One poaching leads to proof of another

Evidence also seized from Coldwell’s computer revealed information from a 2003 Trophy Hunter magazine article depicting Coldwell in Fox Park, also in GMU 18, with a harvested buck. This evidence prompted Officer Padia to obtain another search warrant for his residence. The buck in question was seized and it was determined that Coldwell poached it in 2003 in GMU 18 during muzzleloader season. He did not have a license for GMU 18 that year.

“Transferring licenses, a form of ‘party hunting’, has severely negative impacts on our wildlife,” said Officer Windi Padia. “Hunting opportunities are regulated for a reason—any additional opportunity created by a poacher is one less opportunity for an ethical hunter. Everyone who values our wildlife should know that poaching doesn’t pay.”

You can help stop poaching. If you see a poaching incident, report it. Poaching is a crime against you, your neighbor, and everyone else in the state of Colorado. Call 1-877-COLO-OGT toll-free or Verizon cell phone users can just dial #OGT. If you'd like, you can e-mail us at [email protected].


The Colorado Division of Wildlife is the state agency responsible for managing wildlife and its habitat, as well as providing wildlife related recreation. The Division is funded through hunting and fishing license fees, federal grants and Colorado Lottery proceeds through Great Outdoors Colorado.

For more information about Division of Wildlife go to: http://wildlife.state.co.us.

 

[JohnSWA]

Oscar, you can do what you like since your are most obviously free to choose with whom you wish to hunt. From the outside looking in this looks like a very poor decision in my opinion.

I would still go hunting with you in a heartbeat, but I'd be lying to you if this didn't make me feel like you've dropped a notch or two regarding character and hunters ethics.

 

[elk_hunter]

Blue Yummies, If you wanted to Hop my 6' Dog eared Cedar fence to get to work thats OK. It's one thing to live in the hills and not have a Fence then to live in the city with a solid 6' fence.

Idaho is a bit differnt. I'll have some time tonight to post the laws unless someone posts them before I get to.

Moosie, regardless of location, how in the world is it ever okay to knowingly trespass? Of course there are exceptions -- for example, I can totally understand someone getting turned around/lost and finding themselves on private property accidentally. But just because you don't have a problem with people trespassing on your property, what difference does it make whether in a city or in the hills? It's still private property and everyone should obey the rules governing that.

 

[1_pointer]

It's still private property and everyone should obey the rules governing that.

If you'd do a bit of research, you'd know that he was obeying the rules governing trespass on private property. ID and UT (unless it's recently changed in ID) where a person can enter property that is not irrigated or farmed that is not properly marked. In UT you have to mark the gates/corners and possibly ever so often along the property line. This can be as simple as just painting the fence post orange. If there's no fence between public/private, which is the case in much of Northern UT, you better have some other way of marking your boundary if you don't want other's traipsing through your place. WY is much different, in that the sportsman is responsible for knowing the ownership of where they are and have permission for any private lands (IIRC).

Just so you know that I'm not full of crap, this is out of the 2008 ID regs...

Trespass Law
No person may enter private land to hunt, fish or trap or
retrieve wildlife without permission if the land is either
cultivated or posted with legible “No Trespassing” signs.
Proper posting means either signs, 100 square inches of
fluorescent orange paint, or an entire fluorescent orange
metal fence post every 660 feet around the property and at
reasonable access points.

Land that has been loosened or broken up in preparation for
raising crops, used for raising crops or as irrigated pasture is
considered cultivated.

 

[IdahoBugler]

IDBugler.... I think I have a Book of people I could probably get info out of, would you agree ? I have tons of info and access. You know that.

Huh?!?!? Not sure I'm buying this one. You can get info from anyone but good info is a different story. If you have so much info and access why even use Jeff's service? Or whatever your using... Not trying to bust your balls, to much, but would think you would ask someone else cough.. cough... ME, to go with you and hunt one of the other areas you have info about.

Anyway.... You packed and ready to go to Arizona and New Mexico yet?

 

[elk_hunter]

If you'd do a bit of research, you'd know that he was obeying the rules governing trespass on private property. ID and UT (unless it's recently changed in ID) where a person can enter property that is not irrigated or farmed that is not properly marked. In UT you have to mark the gates/corners and possibly ever so often along the property line. This can be as simple as just painting the fence post orange. If there's no fence between public/private, which is the case in much of Northern UT, you better have some other way of marking your boundary if you don't want other's traipsing through your place. WY is much different, in that the sportsman is responsible for knowing the ownership of where they are and have permission for any private lands (IIRC).

1_pointer -- just as I figured, someone would speak up (you and Buzz) and give me some info on trespassing. So thanks for helping me research!

Obviously there are exceptions as it stands today (ID & UT as you mention), but at a fundamental level, don't you think it's the responsibility of sportsmen to know where they are walking? Regardless of how loose ID/UT/other states might be regarding traipsing on somebody's land? Why is it okay to disrespect someone and their land?

 

[TheTone]

1-pointer, I still think there is a chance a tresspass charge could stick in the example given. There is some recent case law in Idaho of people being convicted based solely on the posting at reasonable access points. I'd also say in the example given the person is well aware its private and that they don't want people on it.

As for the greater topic, I've hunted with some people who've made some bad decisions in the past. I also know that those people wouldn't do now what they did then. They also never did anything as bad as what Jeff did. You couldn't pay me to hunt with that guy. I've got way to much on the line, between loving hunting and a career, to ever jeopardize them by hunting (or really even associating) with people who have such a history.

 

[Blue Yummies]

I went hunting once in Eastern Montana and I dont see how you could post every 660 feet. Moosie should have a ball over there not to many trespass signs.