Wolves are legal????????

[Bullhound]

By the way. I said earlier that when you see sign, there are wolf around. When you see wolves, there are alot around. I saw a total of 6 wolves on two differrent ocasions last year. I wasn't trying to find them. There are about 18 confirmed packs as of last March. For those of you that aren't worried............watchem grow!

 

[cathunt-mt]

I can drive 30 miles awy from Billings, Mt (the largest city in MT) And show any one that wants to see wolves just how close they are. We have lion problems to but we can hunt them and bears...

 

[ELKCHSR]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Oh really, I didnt realize the Selway Bitterroot/Frank Church Wilderness had a heavy population of people in it? I also noticed several million people have taken up residency in Yellowstone Park and the surrounding area as well? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I didn't realize they had totally stayed in their boundaries!!!

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Could you provide any proof that a wolf was placed near a large population of people? For Christ sake, enough with the lies, you look foolish. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I didn't realize you had to put them there for them to be there. Last time I heard, they just walk there!!!
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Sooo, MD4ME, when was the last time you heard a wolf howling in downtown Boise ID? Bozeman MT? Sheridan WY? Any school children been taken away by the big-bad wolf in any of those towns lately? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
No, but they have been seen on the outskirts of some of the large cities.
I don't believe they will be eating children any time soon. But that doesn't matter even if they do, does it Buzz...
You know if you really want it like it used to be, you need to buy the boat ride back across the pond first...
I'll soon follow, really I will...

 

[Ithaca 37]

Bull, " for someone who claims to know so much about what we will and will not have to put up with as far as wolves I'm amazed that you haven't spent the time to find our state's Wolf Plan. It was provided last March by the Idaho Legislative Wolf Oversight Committee."

I'm amazed you don't know that plan has changed. The negotiations caused revisions. It will probably change more in the next few months. I haven't seen the latest version. I hope to in a couple of weeks when I'll be talking to some of the people involved in the negotiations.
http://www.idahostatesman.com/Opinion/story.asp?ID=32522

I expect we'll end up with a population goal of around four or five hundred wolves.

Now, do you think 500 wolves will eat more elk and deer than our mountain lion population?

I can't help noticing you ignored the questions in this post: posted 02-13-2003 18:01

 

[Ithaca 37]

Paul, take a look at the two topics in SI "Ithaca proposes.." and "Ithaca answers" and then explain my agenda again!

 

[BigHornyRam]

Ithaca,

I enjoy reading your B. S. and keeping you honest. You and Buzz are my favorite posters, very entertaining the both of you.

Jack,

Have you ever read the books "Devil Man With a Gun" and Trials and Tribulations" by Art Watson? Good read about ranch life in Central Montana in the early 1900s.

Buzz,

Mule Deer said wolves near population centers. Do those sheep and dogs killed this past year just outside Livingston count? How about the wolf hit by car trying to cross I-90 on the Bozeman pass? While we probably will not see any wolves checking out the art galleries in downtown Bozeman, the llamas in the Gallatin Valley are getting a little nervous.

Paul

 

[Ithaca 37]

Paul, Here's what you said in this topic on 2/13: "Wolves should be transfered from endangered to threatened status in the next few weeks." Sounds like BS to me.

I'll be watching the calendar! Somebody needs to keep you honest!

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 02-15-2003 12:41: Message edited by: Ithaca 37 ]</font>

 

[BuzzH]

Paul, learn to read.

MD4ME said wolves were released in populated areas, thats a fargin lie.

 

[Ithaca 37]

Here's what she said at 8:58 2/14. "Placing them around populated areas was a boneheaded movement in the first place."

Paul, is that true or not? Do you know anything about the release sites?

 

[Bullhound]

Ithica,

Please fill me in on all the changes in the plan. I didn't mean to avoid any questions. I do not know exactly what the population of Mountain Lions happens to be at this time. Maybe you could enlighten me? I do know that our state is trying to address the cat issue and bring the numbers down. While I do not claim to have all the answers or claim to be in the middle of the "negotiations", I will offer my opinion. 500 wolves will take (JMO) in the neighborhood of 8,000 to 10,000 elk. That, as you know, works out to about 16-20 kills per year/ per wolf.

 

[Bullhound]

Ithica,

I just read the article you provided a link to. It's pretty obvious that the Richert character is all for the wolf and probably doesn't see any detrimental impact coming due to the reintroduction.

I'd like to ask you, Ithica, if you could give me your opinion. Should the wolves have been forced down Idaho's throat. How many wolves do you want in our state? Do you want to pay for the management of these animals? Maybe you can elighten me as to how cheap it will be to "manage" the wolf population when, or if, it gets out of control. Will they be poisoned? I think not. Will it take F&G airborn shooters to bring numbers down? I think so. Do you think there are more wolves in Idaho now than what any study confirms? Please enlighten me.

By the way, I would not use an opinion article by some schlepp as my basis for any decision.

 

[danr55]

Bullhound, It seems to me that you are presuming a lot. They have been trying to reintroduce the wolf in Arizona for several years. The number of wolves that mysteriously die from being hit by cars, or just disappear has, so far, kept the population down quite well. We are in little danger of being over populated by wolves. I don't believe that populations will get out of hand for some time.

 

[Ithaca 37]

"Please fill me in on all the changes in the plan."

Read the part of my post where I said I haven't seen the latest version.

"Maybe you could enlighten me?"

Estimates vary from 4000-8000 lions. How many deer and elk would 4000 eat?

"Should the wolves have been forced down Idaho's throat. How many wolves do you want in our state?"

About 50% of people polled said they wanted wolves. Same number in WY did. I didn't, but I recognize the reality of the ESA.

I want the minimum # needed to keep them from being listed again.

I'm not going to bother with the rest of your questions. I think management costs should be paid by the feds. As for control, if you and all the rest who claim to hate wolves get out and hunt them you'll be able to control the numbers. I think it's odd that you're not all out killing a lion every year if you're concerned about them eating elk. I think the gummint will have a fairly good idea of wolf #s by spring.

If you want to be enlightened any more do your own research or go read all the wolf topics in SI. Most of your questions have been answered there.

 

[Bullhound]

Dan,

Maybe you're right. Maybe I presume too much. I'm going by what I see for myself, and hear from other people here that are in the woods alot and spend their elk season in Wilderness areas in the Northwest. What I see and hear tells me that there are more wolves out there now than any agency is willing to admit. The elk numbers are down in the wilderness areas. The whitetail numbers are down in the area that I hunt them and I've seen alot of sign and have been close to a few wolves. The wolves, as far as I know, are not acknowledged as existing in this area (no confirmed pack).

 

[Michaelr]

Your the only one bitching about lions

The big game populations were doing fine with lions, there are controls and seasons for lions.
APPLES AND ORANGES

Do you honestly believe that the bunny huggers will ever allow a wolf season?
Or will the F+G departments be lost in a mountain of lawsuits?

The wolf is additive, is there enough surplus to support the growing wolf populations? and Hunting?

 

[Bullhound]

Ithica,

As far as your statement that 50% of people in Idaho wanted the wolf reintroduced, I call BS! Do your own poll. Talk to as many people as you can. Ask the question directly. I know that when I do this, I can't find one in ten that thinks the wolf should have been reintroduced. Maybe people are differrent around your parts.

4,000 to 8,000??????? Where does this very wide guess come from. If we can't get any better idea than that, God help us. I honestly do not know what the number is but if you could let me know where this guess comes from, I'd like to do some further resarch.

 

[danr55]

One of the tactical techniques used to prove a point statistically is what is called "selective analysis". If you want to prove that a Republican is loosing an election race, you go to a predominantly Democrat area and you take a poll. THis technique is used to create what is commonly referred to as a self-fullfilling prophecy. If you say something loud enough and enough times, eventually people will believe you and it will become fact.

The reason I bring this up is because all too frequently, surveys are taken and the results published as fact, when the persons polled were not selected at random. What kind of results would you expect if you polled a bunch of Earth First folks and asked about wolf re-introduction. Exactly the opposite of what you would expect if you polled a bunch of sheep ranchers. In order for any poll to be accurate, the persons polled have to be random. So Bullhound, I don't think that you asking your friends and acquaintances about wolf re-introduction could be considered random.

Ithica, with regard to the Quail data you published, I don't consider that complete or credable without the cooresponding data on hunter numbers and days afield. With that missing, your data is just a bunch of numbers. There is nothing to compare.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 02-17-2003 12:01: Message edited by: danr55 ]</font>

 

[Bullhound]

Dan,

uuuugghhhhhhhh............

I like you alot better when you agree with me

by the way...........I don't think I'll be asking questions of you or Ithica in my next poll

 

[BigHornyRam]

Buzz and Ithaca,

You guys are sticklers for details. A Yellowstone wolf could be outside Bozeman in a day if it had a mind to. When they were first introduced there was no reason for them to travel far. In seven short years, their numbers have grown. Now that all the wolf habitat is occupied in Jellystone, they are expanding their range. Anyone with common sense could understand that this would happen given time. There are some idiots out there now that still do not believe we have a problem.

Dan,

What does the sucess or failure of the Arizona wolf program have to do with what is happening in Yellowstone and Idaho? You need to come up here and see for yourself first hand before you can form an opinion.

Paul

 

[Ithaca 37]

Bullhound, "4,000 to 8,000??????? Where does this very wide guess come from. " From F%G dept. biologists. Lions are hard to count, just like moose and bears. I guess you haven't been very involved in F&G issues or you'd know that. Ask some F&G biologists how many moose and bears we have!

Here's some info on wolf polls. Now that I've shown you don't know what you're talking about don't expect me to do any more research for you. Learn to do it yourself. I'm not here to answer all your questions.

http://www.defenders.org/wildlife/wolf/yeswolf.html

"He is quick, however, to cite polls in Montana, Idaho, and Wyoming, all far more rural in nature than California, that show a majority of residents support wolf restoration efforts."

http://www.calacademy.org/calwild/winter2000/html/wolf2.html

"Polls Boise State University conducted when wolves were released showed a majority of Idahoans supported the effort."

http://www.wolf.org/wolves/news/news02_02/02_18_02idaho_griz_wolf.asp

Here's a lot more:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=wolf+polls+idaho+wyoming

Now, How about showing me some polls that support what you claim!?

I suspect a lot of you guys who are bitching about wolves never took part in the public comment process that went on for a few years before wolves were reintroduced, or you would know what happened. If you didn't make your opinion known then it's kinda late to be whining now.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 02-17-2003 17:27: Message edited by: Ithaca 37 ]</font>