Windmills coming to public land near you

[1976]

Im not sure about that Buzz, there was an oil company up by Portal that had a open pit on a location which was legal and fallowed all state and federal guidelines rules and regs, was setup for a containment pit for a disposal and unfortunately a couple coots and a pair of shovelers thought it looked like a good place for a home, when a valve failed and the pit did what it was designed for, a couple of ducks perished, they were fined and now have a fancy net over the pit, Verendry electric south of minot during the fall or spring migration could have a picture of the dead that would rival the old time 1920 market day pics, ducks, geese, swans, pelicans, hawks an occasional eagle, song birds, and its all just chalked up as a casualty of friendly green energy. There is definitely a double standard. Now should the oil company had taken precautions earlier, u bet, but I worked thru the days when we had open pit drilling and I can count on 2 hands and a foot how many birds we fished out of the pit, and that was over a 11 yr period. Poop happens.

 

[MO Betta]

My experiences and opinions don't mirror everyone else's, but I despise wind farms. I grew up in an area that was heavily strip mined for coal (SE KS) which, while surely an eyesore at the time, has turned into awesome habitat for fish and deer, turkeys, etc. once backfilling was done and nature did what nature always does. Western KS you would see the occasional pump, but I never saw a large scale oil operation so I won't comment on that but wind farms are infuriating for me to see. They're a huge eyesore in what would otherwise feel like a mostly natural environment. The numbers I have read on the bird kills border on unbelievable, I would like to look at some legitimate studies but I could see a fair number for sure. I realize that I'm pretty new to the board but I just wanted to rant a little about them.

 

[RobG]

Dammit, they are wind turbines, not wind mills.

 

[kansasdad]

According to the article, carbon emissions associated from wind energy v electric cars may not pencil out when calculating battery manufacture, assembly and recharging versus fossil fuel extraction, assembly and driving.

Electric Vehicles in Germany Emit More Carbon Dioxide Than Diesel Vehicles

A study by the IFO think tank in Munich found that electric vehicles in Germany emit 11 percent to 28…

www.instituteforenergyresearch.org

According to the article it comes down to the source of the electricity. Germany leans heavier on coal, and so produces more carbon emissions than natural gas produced electricity.

 

[mtmiller]

According to the article, carbon emissions associated from wind energy v electric cars may not pencil out when calculating battery manufacture, assembly and recharging versus fossil fuel extraction, assembly and driving.

According to the article it comes down to the source of the electricity. Germany leans heavier on coal, and so produces more carbon emissions than natural gas produced electricity.

I will give it a read when I have more time. That being said, I did a quick search on the "institute" and there are some interesting names associated.

Like I said, I haven't read it yet.

 

[noharleyyet]

^^^You're inferring group W bench interesting names aren't'cha?

 

[mtmiller]

You do fill a niche here.

 

[kansasdad]

I will give it a read when I have more time. That being said, I did a quick search on the "institute" and there are some interesting names associated.

Like I said, I haven't read it yet.

I didn't check the Institute's backers or associates. I think we would all be wise to examine the source and their potential biases.

I did read the whole article. Lingering sense of non-bias still attached to my nostrils.......thus in my post #84 is intentionally used the "according to the article" twice.

Building batteries, wind turbines, transmission lines, pipelines, or burning coal, oil, natural gas, splitting atoms......it all comes at a significant cost of time, energy and carbon release.

 

[noharleyyet]

You do fill a niche here.

You throwing shade at empirical Forschung?

 

[wytex]

somebody around here must know. What proportion of windmills have bullet holes in them? Seems that folks that cannot resist signs, fence posts, misc. landscape trash, can't possible pass up a windmill target.

Anyone know?

They whistle after being shot in the blades, from what I've been told.

 

[BigHornRam]

I'd like to see more of this carbon neutral energy production/ restoration technology put in place on more public lands near me.

https://restorationfuels.com/

 

[BigHornRam]

Takes a lot of "windmills" to replace fossil fuels. Another bill in the hopper hints to where we are heading.

Pricing Carbon 101 | Citizens' Climate Lobby

Putting a price on carbon would mean reducing America's carbon pollution through policy. It will save lives, create jobs, strengthen our economy, and more.

citizensclimatelobby.org

 

[Nameless Range]

Another aesthetic observation:

I drove through western North Dakota in the dark yesterday morning.

Those wind Turbines blink at night for obvious reasons related to aircraft safety. The thing is, they blink in unison. So, as we drove along the interstate, many miles off, a line of giant red lights miles long itself, each individual light about 300 feet off the ground, turned on and off together in concert every couple seconds.

It’s a year round Christmas display a few sections in size, and it would be an inescapable background irritant to anyone within its view shed, which is a many mile radius, every night, all night.

From my own perspective, if all of a sudden the dark night sky where I live we’re to be destroyed by something like this, I’d be devastated .

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Somebody that knows the numbers could figure this out... how many acres of disturbance from windmills and how many windmills would it take and what’s the cost, assuming the windmills will last for the average life of a windmill before needing rebuilt, to generate the amount of electricity that could be produced from natural gas produced as an oil byproduct from one multi well pad with a several acre footprint, over the average lifespan of a Bakken well.

@wllm1313 you know any of these numbers maybe?

Preface... the number of WAGS I had to take was a bit egregious.

Assumptions:
-Marcellus (dry gas play very little oil) and Bakken (Oil play very little gas) volumes from projects I have knowledge of... these aren't averaged volumes, and not necessarily indicative of the play operators might have better rock/more downspacing/ etc
-Assuming efficiencies from a brand new combined cycle gas plant and output from new wind turbines (source EIA)

OG pad = 5 acres
Turbine = .3 Acres

From what I was able to find a horizontal well is going to have about the same life as a wind turbine ~25-30 years. As you will observe O/G wells have a step decline curve so you can't compare peak rates alone and the number of wells equivalent to a OG pad is going to change every year.




So in year 1 a Marcellus pad will provide as much energy as 990 wind turbines, and will have 1/66 the physical foot print, a year 1 Bakken pad will produce as much gas as 18 turbines and have 80% the footprint.

By year 5 a Bakken pad would actually have a larger foot print. Keep in mind for the Marcellus well this is the total output (main production), while it's just the gas for a Bakken well (byproduct) which will also be producing several thousand barrels of oil.

 

[BigHornRam]

Long yet informative read on renewable energy.

Energy Sources, Renewable Energy, Oil, Coal - National Geographic

Where on Earth can our energy-hungry society turn to replace oil, coal, and natural gas?

www.nationalgeographic.com

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Long yet informative read on renewable energy.

Energy Sources, Renewable Energy, Oil, Coal - National Geographic

Where on Earth can our energy-hungry society turn to replace oil, coal, and natural gas?

www.nationalgeographic.com

Great article, I don't agree entirely with their assessment of Oil/Gas. With WTI at $56 and NG at $2.11 a mcf I'm kinda rolling my eyes at, "As National Geographic reported in June 2004, oil, no longer cheap, may soon decline."

Adjusted for inflation you are currently paying less at the pump than anyone in the history of this country has ever paid.

 

[Deleted member 18333]

I have. Asked chapter pres. Regional folks. BHA HQ. Damn quiet. I know I get constant emails on anything they(we) support, but this one I had to actually go search for.

Development is development. And if all it costs is 25% Wildlife donation, I'm betting BP, Exxon, Wilkes are seeing a damn good investment.

My friend, from where a lot of us stand, we are seeing, smelling, sensing HYPOCRICY and SELLOUT.

Sure be glad go great otherwise

BP, Exxon, Wilkes, etc will not be paying a single dime more regardless of this Bill. That 25% comes from the money owed to the citizens of the US. The 25% number is not a royalty on profits made by the owner of the wind farm or solar array but rather a distribution of the royalties and fees paid to the federal government from a Federal land lease. The Federal government would be forced to dedicate 25% of whatever they receive in the form of royalties, lease payments and rent. If I am not mistaken the current royalty rate for wind and solar is 0%. You can do the math from there. That would leave the lease and rent payments to the Feds for utilizing BLM land. For O&G and coal leases the Feds receive what is determined to be FMV of the resource they are extracting. Typically these leases are done competitively, not always, unless there is a compelling reason not to such as the lease in question is surrounded by a current coal mine and no other company could realistically get to it. Even in those cases the Feds determine what is FMV and a bid of less than that will be rejected. I know I've done it.

In the case of wind and solar the leases are processed as Right of Ways, not resource extraction. Therefore they are processed in a first-come first serve fashion and requires only a rent payment. Rent is somehow tied to the rate on a Treasury Bond. O&G and coal pay this as well but also pay a royalty and a lease fee (bonus bid based on FMV)on top of that. I can tell you rent rates for BLM land are low. This Bill does have a provision to allow for rental rate increases over time to be tied to a GDP metric but is not required. It also has a provision to lower the rental rate if the project is not making money. This provision does not exist for O&G and coal. I work at a large mine about 50% on Fed land and the rental rate we pay per year is in the thousands, not millions. The royalty we pay per year is in the millions. The bonus bid we pay over the course of 5 years on new leases is in the millions.

So you have 25% of a low land rental rate for a ROW going to wildlife and land conservation. The remaining funds from the land rental are as follows, 25% goes to the State, 25% goes to the county, 15% going to back to the BLM to specifically fund permitting of new renewable energy projects on BLM land and 10% going to a fund to reduce the Fed deficit.

This Bill wont generate jack sh!t in Fed revenue compared to what other extractive industries generate. And as wllm illustrated will take up more land to generate the equivalent energy. If BHA or any group were truly concerned with habitat degredation they would support O&G and nuclear development over all. They have the smallest footprint and generate the most bang for the public land buck.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

BP, Exxon, Wilkes, etc will not being a single dime more regardless of this Bill.

Although BP is one of the world's largest solar panel producers and Exxon just signed a huge solar/wind deal in Texas. So the companies chasing these public land rentals might be the big O/G companies.

 

[BigHornRam]

Great article, I don't agree entirely with their assessment of Oil/Gas. With WTI at $56 and NG at $2.11 a mcf I'm kinda rolling my eyes at, "As National Geographic reported in June 2004, oil, no longer cheap, may soon decline."

Adjusted for inflation you are currently paying less at the pump than anyone in the history of this country has ever paid.

That part of the article made me chuckle too. Good catch! Excellent comprehension skills wllm.

 

[BigHornRam]

Although BP is one of the world's largest solar panel producers and Exxon just signed a huge solar/wind deal in Texas. So the companies chasing these public land rentals might be the big O/G companies.

BP stands for "Beyond Petroleum" these days.