Wilks brothers true colors are shining through.....

[roadhunter]

So now the discussions is back to me. Imagine that. You must not see how predictable your responses are at this point. I could probably write about half of your responses for you.

I believe in private property rights and I believe the federal government does a poor job of just about everything they do including managing land.

I do almost all of my hunting and outdoor recreation on public land, primarily state land but I do hunt some federal land. In fact that was one of the main reasons I moved here because in this area you will rarely see another person on public land outside of deer season.

I do large conservation projects on public land, primarily state, as the feds don't do as much conservation work in my area as states do. I even looked at a job a couple of weeks ago where the state way paying for a large conservation project on federal land. According to HT the state is the enemy and will sell off land if it is given to them. Yet another ridiculous claim by extremist on this site. The state is not the enemy to hunters even if HT folks want to pretend that is the case.

I may not be the best reader but I do understand what is going on and have formed an opinion based on what I see happening, not exaggerated half truths that are told by people who want you to believe the sky is falling and the for sale sign will be out on all public land by the end of the week.

Just because someone does not share your opinion on a topic does not mean that they are dumb or lack reading comprehension. It just means they have a different opinion than you do and that is perfectly OK, it's a free country. No need to resort to childish insults and playground name calling in these situations. In fact you will probably be taken more seriously if you can avoid those types of reactions and act like an adult instead.

 

[roadhunter]

is it a fence designed to kill wildlife, particularly elk. . Unless you support private property owners purposely killing wildlife out of spite because they didn't get their way?

If you don't like it then don't click the respond button or ignore it all together and go onto the hundreds of hunting forums that are out there.


Nemont

What about their fence makes you believe it was built for the purpose of killing elk?

The other hunting forums don't have the kind of extremist this site has so I will be here simply for the entertainment factor. I find it funny how you have decided that I am the enemy and need to leave simply because I believe in private property rights and don't buy into your paranoid interpretations of fence building. Thanks for providing my entertainment.

 

[sweetnectar]

A road has been cut and signage put up around other property boundaries (ie private/private boundaries and private/public boundaries) well before this BLM piece. It is likely they were holding off because there was a chance this BLM piece would be land swapped out. Now with no land swap we see fence and roads like everything else. I'm not surprised or shocked...just seems to be the pattern of how they like to keep their land. I personally think the disturbed soil breeds weeds and will take some future maintenance until sod can form again. I suppose it is a trade off to gaining a nice fire break, easier access to maintain fence, and clarifies boundaries. It's their land, they can do what they want with it.

 

[RobG]

Roadhunter, there are several people involved in this issue that are doing their best to help hunters by documenting and obtaining information to make the situation as good as possible. They have chosen to speak out here so others can benefit from their experience and to publicize the antics of the Wilks - who are certainly not acting in the best interest of the people or the elk that have historically used that land.

If you want to defend the Wilks with evidence that their fences are wildlife friendly, or even necessary, by all means do so because all evidence we have suggests otherwise. If you have evidence that their fences do not encroach where Wingman says they do, that they are not driving off road with their cats without penalty while pilots are threatened with tickets, by all means present it.

It is a damn shame we have to do all this to protect what we have, but we do. We can't just give in. This thread has a lot of good information in it by some incredibly informed and caring people. It would be nice if it weren't diluted with pointless arguments about tangential topics. Please stop trolling here.

 

[wingman1]

Some additional pics. The fence, at least in some areas is 5'3". I would love to get in their with a tape measure and fully document what is going on. Because of the width of the pics, I am just going to list the others as links below this first pic. I didnt want to edit them too small and loose clarity. You can see that bottom wire is maybe a couple inches off the ground. There is no way calves can get through or over that. The fence is not complete yet.

Wilks fence 2

Wilks fence 3

Wilks fence 4

I'll be going in for rifle opener if you need a ride. Are you in good shape?

 

[MHMT]

Some additional pics. The fence, at least in some areas is 5'3". I would love to get in their with a tape measure and fully document what is going on. Because of the width of the pics, I am just going to list the others as links below this first pic. I didnt want to edit them too small and loose clarity. You can see that bottom wire is maybe a couple inches off the ground. There is no way calves can get through or over that. The fence is not complete yet.

Not trying to defend Wilks, but it looks like the wire is just stretched across the ground to get a straight line, I assume they will be clipping the wire up higher...

 

[mdunc8]

You can see that bottom wire is maybe a couple inches off the ground.

Not questioning the "friendliness" of the fence, but I think your pictures merely show the string used to keep the post in line.

 

[wingman1]

like I said, I could care less what the Wilks do with their property. But look at pic 1 from The previous posting. Do you see the fence? Now look at all the brush and downed trees piled up. Guess what side that is and who owns it. Yeh you guessed it. BLM. Massive public land destruction. This cannot and will not go unnoticed.

 

[sweetnectar]

You can see that bottom wire is maybe a couple inches off the ground. There is no way calves can get through or over that. The fence is not complete yet.

Kat, I don't know how to put this...um...you see when building fence like this you string the bottom wire between the stretch gates first. Then you pound posts along the bottom wire because it gives you a straight line. Then you lift the bottom wire to the desired height and use a clip to fasten it to the metal T post.....what I'm getting at is the picture looks like the wire is laying on the ground and not clipped to the post yet.
And I'm pretty sure a calf can step over that fence in its current condition....just being a smart ass.

Ugly looking mess for sure tho.

 

[roadhunter]

Glad to see that someone who has built fence pointed out what is really going on in that pic. Another conspiracy theory busted.

 

[roadhunter]

That wire 2" off the ground is clearly meant to kill calves and has nothing to do with lining up posts just like everyone else does when building a fence. Really?

Do you realize how this looks from the outside looking in? Bunch of people all fired up about a "anti elk" fence and then several people point out that what they see in the pics is meant to line up posts not kill elk calves. Not even sure how a wire 2" off the ground would kill a calf but I guess it proves that you can try to spin just about anything to fit your agenda if you try hard enough. Its' hilarious. Reminds me of the wolf people.

 

[Straight Arrow]

If they buy the land they should be able to do what they want with it. That is my belief and I find it strange how you act like I am some outsider because I believe in private property rights.

Whoa up, big fella, roadhunter ... there you go again assuming someone is expressing something about usurping someone else's private property rights.

As someone who actually owns several tracts of land in Montana, I am keenly aware of and strongly supportive of private property rights. But I also know that It is definitively and legally borne out that a private property owner cannot simply "do whatever they want with it." You may choose to believe so, but that is naive and an erroneous.ideological oversimplification historically contradicted judicially time after time.

But the topic in this thread is protection of public property rights and the right of the state to protect wildlife held in trust on behalf of all citizens of the state. The information being disseminated is obviously slanting a bias with which you disagree, but it is graphic and factual. Furthermore it does include statements and assertions regarding those private property rights that are perfectly appropriate for the Wilks to implement.

I suggest you step back and attempt to keep your obvious ideological sensitivities from clouding understanding of what others are expressing.

 

[tjones]

roadhunter, serious question. Do you work for Wilks Bros?

 

[Nemont]

What about their fence makes you believe it was built for the purpose of killing elk?

The other hunting forums don't have the kind of extremist this site has so I will be here simply for the entertainment factor. I find it funny how you have decided that I am the enemy and need to leave simply because I believe in private property rights and don't buy into your paranoid interpretations of fence building. Thanks for providing my entertainment.

I too am a private property rights advocate and stated so. You are entitled to your own opinion just not your own facts.

I never said you were anything, the only paranoid delusion seem to be yours that you believe you are labeled an enemy.

I never used such a term

The QUESTION is why build a fence that kills elk? Straight forward enough. That fence is clearly designed to keep elk off of public lands and if elk, as they like to do attempt to go over/under/through it, many will end up dead. Doesn't mean that the Wilks' Bros. are evil, it means they are spending their money to build fences that, whether they intend to or not, kill elk. It is okay to then state that the intention of the fence is to keep the elk off of public land and the side effect in doing so is killing elk. That isn't a judgement of the Wilks' Bros. but rather a fact that is easy to see using one's eyeballs and firing brain cells.

I grew up and still do hunt and recreate on private lands that few other have access to. I understand perfectly well the issue and have no issue with people spending money to buy land and doing with it what they want.

I really don't care if your opinion is 100% opposite of anybody else's it is a free country. Again that doesn't mean you close your eyes and don't see an issue when one arises.

Nemont

 

[HSi-ESi]

Is there an organization that promotes and helps fund wildlife friendly fences? Oh wait, a quick google search helps detail hundreds of projects that the RMEF has been involved in.

RMEF Wildlife Friendly Fencing

The high and tight fence they are putting in is a high maintenance fence - especially in regards to the high population of elk in the area. If you've ever watched an elk herd cross a fence then it should be very obvious.

The Elk foundation has people VOLUNTEER THEIR TIME to correct fences such as the one(s) being currently constructed.

 

[jabber]

Just a few thoughts from page 16 of this thread....

Katqanna clearly doesn't know how to build a fence, not saying that is a bad thing, just saying....

If what wingman said about the pictures is correct, then unless whoever took them has permission, they were trespassing on private land...

Seen it mentioned a number of times about "the fence" being designed to keep elk off of public land. Is this a one way design, or would it also keep elk off of private land? Just asking.

Carry on.

 

[roadhunter]

The information being disseminated is obviously slanting a bias with which you disagree, but it is graphic and factual. .

Facts?? So you think that pic shows an anti elk fence that is 5'3 " tall?

All I see is a standard fence being built just the way fences have been built for many years with a strand of wire being used to line up posts. No conspiracy that I can see.

If what you are shoveling is actually factual information there will be an investigation and charges will be filed shortly. With all the federal employees on this site surely they would be able to give us an update as to how the investigation is going and what the penalties will be for these terrible crimes.

Unfortunately according to this article the investigation has already been done and found no wrong doing.
http://billingsgazette.com/lifestyl...cle_2f1e5ea8-06e3-50ae-a350-deeabfb42cd4.html

So at this point you either believe A that no laws were broken building this fence or you believe B the government is not doing a good job with the investigation and letting political power push the legal ramifications for their actions aside. If you believe B then I dont' see how you could say the government is doing a good job of managing this land they are in charge of. Kinda hard to claim the federal government does a good job managing land when they let adjacent landowners pull crap like you are claiming in this situation or other situations like the Bundy cluster. If what you say is true it seems to indicate the federal government is really not that good at managing land.

 

[roadhunter]

That fence is clearly designed to keep elk off of public lands.

Where would I find an engineer to design one of these fences that keeps animals off of public land and on private land? Can you e-mail me some specs or contact info for the engineer who designed this 1 way elk fence?

Couldn't you make a case that the fence is designed to keep elk on public lands as well?

Take off your foil hat for a minute and try to make a logical argument that the fence is designed to keep elk on 1 side but not the other.

See how easy it is to poke holes in these conspiracy theories.

 

[jryoung]

Do you realize how this looks from the outside looking in? Bunch of people all fired up about a "anti elk" fence and then several people point out that what they see in the pics is meant to line up posts not kill elk calves. Not even sure how a wire 2" off the ground would kill a calf but I guess it proves that you can try to spin just about anything to fit your agenda if you try hard enough. Its' hilarious. Reminds me of the wolf people.

I think "a bunch of people all fired up" from fence pictures in posts ranging from #1-#379. The picture in #380 may have (had) fired up Kat, but it's clear her argument is incorrect and I would suspect that she will acknowledge the mistake. I don't see a "bunch of people all fired up" utilizing Kat's pictures in post #380 as an argument.

 

[roadhunter]

I think "a bunch of people all fired up" from fence pictures in posts ranging from #1-#379. The picture in #380 may have (had) fired up Kat, but it's clear her argument is incorrect and I would suspect that she will acknowledge the mistake. I don't see a "bunch of people all fired up" utilizing Kat's pictures in post #380 as an argument.

So now the tactic is to pretend that people are not fired up about this topic and there are not page after page of posts regarding this topic? Interesting approach. If all the threads and posts were not readily available it might actually work. But since the threads and posts are there for everyone to read and when you see all the crazy talk in those posts there is really no reason to deny what is out therefore everyone to read.

If people were not fired up about this there would not be 16 pages of discussion desperately trying to find something illegal about the fence project. Everything from location, height, # of wires, danger to animals, toilet paper left on public land, where campers are parked, dozers, water runoff, etc....