Can you make me look dumb and show me where it says it can only be 4 wire? I don't want to admit how many times I read your linked pdf and couldn't find it.
Wilks brothers true colors are shining through.....
- Thread starter wingman1
- Start date
Can you make me look dumb and show me where it says it can only be 4 wire? I don't want to admit how many times I read your linked pdf and couldn't find it.
Big Foot
Active member
Katqanna,
Thanks for the info. Valuable input as always.
I am anxious to see what comes of this move by the Wilks.
Thanks for the info. Valuable input as always.
I am anxious to see what comes of this move by the Wilks.
katqanna
Well-known member
I have to run to a 4 hour meeting of these 7 counties and their commissioners shortly, but I have been on with National BLM and going through some legal documents on BLM fencing standards and US code. I was looking into this a wee bit ago when I first heard the rumor of the Wilks fencing and posted to the forum. So I am picking up where I left off last time. As soon as I get back, I can post these legal codes.
katqanna
Well-known member
Oak, sorry, youre not dumb. Ive got several statues and documents in my head which I am trying to confirm the 4 wire on, as well as the older guys that were involved with this Turner case years ago. Bottom wire cant be less than 15-18 high off the ground and top cant be more than 48". Some references say 4 wire, which I am trying to find in a code. Then got involved with BLM national to reference their national fencing standards, per the legal document I found online and the articles references.
mdunc8
Well-known member
I wasn't in Montana long and I've never looked at the regs, but I saw plenty of five, and I believe even six, wire fences, which leads me to believe you are incorrect. I too have been wrong before though. I'm guessing you're imaging the pamphlet they put out for "wildlife friendly" fences.
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Bambistew
Well-known member
I'm guessing a "legal" fence is the minimum required when mandated. LIke you Dunc, I've been wrong before... but have also built a chit load of 5 and 6 wire fence that was 48" tall. Long legged black Angus cows can jump "legal" fence, and good luck keeping a suffix sheep in with 4 wires, much less 6.
he private land for what I presume to be the parcels at issue is within an allotment boundary, but if that land is NOT in exchange of use or used as percent federal range for the calculation of their grazing bill I'm not sure that the BLM can enforce their fencing standard.
The online info I've gleaned shows that neither of the two allotments the Wilks Ranch Montana are permitted for (Nbar and Pronghorn Ranch) are billed as percent federal range. Nothing in the online permit information about exchange of use. One would have to get a hold of either an annual grazing application, grazing bill, or the allotment/permit file to ascertain the status of that. Exchange of use seems likely for the Pronghorn Ranch allotment as it is largely private land. There is one section of private land in the Nbar allotment. I'd be surprised if that did not have exchange of use as well, since I can't seen any fence lines or infrastructure indicating it is physically seperated from the rest of the allotment.
The third allotment (Bald Butte) that takes up part of the Durfee Hills BLM has a different operator listed as the grazing permit holder. Not saying it's not the Wilks, just saying it's listed as White Pine Ranch.
The online info I've gleaned shows that neither of the two allotments the Wilks Ranch Montana are permitted for (Nbar and Pronghorn Ranch) are billed as percent federal range. Nothing in the online permit information about exchange of use. One would have to get a hold of either an annual grazing application, grazing bill, or the allotment/permit file to ascertain the status of that. Exchange of use seems likely for the Pronghorn Ranch allotment as it is largely private land. There is one section of private land in the Nbar allotment. I'd be surprised if that did not have exchange of use as well, since I can't seen any fence lines or infrastructure indicating it is physically seperated from the rest of the allotment.
The third allotment (Bald Butte) that takes up part of the Durfee Hills BLM has a different operator listed as the grazing permit holder. Not saying it's not the Wilks, just saying it's listed as White Pine Ranch.
Nemont
Well-known member
Not to get off topic but I had a question about the terminology and/or definition of a word in the pdf that katqanna posted. What the heck are "stacks" (read, flatlander)
Hay stacks.
Nemont
twodot
New member
While all of this does indeed make the bros. Wilks look like some not so nice guys. I hope that if they are building that fence on their Deeded Property, that the sportsmen, state and federal agencies will leave them alone. If they bought it, I support their right to fence it however they see fit. Mean that, 7 strands, woven wire, or razor wire. (even if I don't personally like it) It's their private property not mine. There is a rather nasty pile on mentality going on among the ranks of the hunting crowd on the forums these days and it will probably do more harm than good.
Hope everyone here can take the high ground on this issue.
Hope everyone here can take the high ground on this issue.
wingman1
New member
Will do
noharleyyet
Well-known member
Did they remove the fifth wheel from the landing road?
wingman1
New member
No, it is unattended during the week.
wingman1
New member
wingman1
New member
wingman1
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twodot
New member
Wingman, that flyover with a chopper business is crap for sure. I hate seeing stuff like this happen.
the nubs on the metal posts are 2 " from tdc to tdc. Mt fwp recommends a fence 15 to 18 in off the ground and 43 in high. These are my best recollection without looking it up. The wire looks like red brand barb wire,not high tensile, same as we have used for our fences. From what I can tell from the pic the hight of the fence is fine but the lower wire may be low. Lower than than fwp recommends for wildlife friendly, but that low wire would probably be necessary to contain domestic sheep. Not meaning to highjack this thread look up what the mt fwp wants to use for fence to contain buffalo on their wild life management areas. Not very wildlife friendly at all. Any fence that will contain buffalo will also contain or stop wildlife movement.
I have been following this thread and trying to get my thoughts on the subject in order. I am definitely a public property rights advocate but also think private property rights are equally important. It seems the Wilks may be vindictive in some of their actions and I don't trust them one bit. I think they have tried and will continue to try and benefit themselves at the cost of the public. Given this, the fence doesn't seem like that big of a deal. If they didn't build it and turned out a thousand head of cattle that then grazed the BLM ground without a grazing lease that would be illegal. I agree with twodot and think good fences make good neighbors although they could have helped themselves as well as the wildlife by looking into wildlife friendly fence. I do think that it should be legal to shoot at aircraft with a bow - if they are that low then they are harassing. It would surprise me if the fence was not surveyed in and that the brace is across the line. If it is it seems trivial but I assume that the wilks will have to move it since they have stirred up a hornets nest. The wilks could also be looking at some trouble for disturbing the BLM ground. Although I am sure authorities will be reluctant to press any charges knowing what a fight they will be up against.
Wingman - I do appreciate the updates and pictures and hope that the next one is a dead bull. good luck
Wingman - I do appreciate the updates and pictures and hope that the next one is a dead bull. good luck
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