Wildife Task force 90-10, etc.

[BuzzH]

I'm not disagreeing with you guys, but you are assuming that those 1100 additional residents who drew a LQ tag would have hunted general had they not drawn LQ.

Which is almost always the case that those who don't draw LQ buy and hunt general...always outliers for sure.

I'm all for limiting nr general tags more though...I hunt general 80% of the time, the fewer hunters in those areas the better.

 

[Treeshark]

If treeshark is going to claim that transferable tags are the way to go, doesn't it appear odd he's never purchased one?

That's pretty interesting....more interesting he still dabbles in state draws.

Makes no sense...well, actually it does. Not many hunters shell out for transferable landowner tags, governor's tags, etc...they like to talk tough until it's time to cut the check.

Typical.

This post made my day, thanks Buzz

I’m only one “if only obviously” from a Buzz Bingo, can you help a brother out?

 

[BuzzH]

This post made my day, thanks Buzz

As did yours when you admit to never buying tags you're so in favor of.

Better step it up, governor's and commission tags aren't cheap in Wyoming and we're never going to have transferable landowner tags

 

[Treeshark]

I don’t remember ever saying that, but if you said I did I’m sure you’re right- this is the internet and by my count you remain undefeated

As far as Wyoming having transferable tags, I’m not so sure about that- forever is a long time. You certainly could be right, but the posters in the New Mexico thread were way more supportive of them than I ever would have imagined and made some very good points. It’s starting to appear there is a pathway for them in Montana as well. It’s a really interesting (and productive) discussion imo. As I’ve said before- they may be the last best hope for DIY NR’s, as unfortunate as that may seem.

I’m not going to lose sleep over it either way- states make their own rules and NRs just have to play by them the best we can.

 

[Deleted member 18333]

I'm not disagreeing with you guys, but you are assuming that those 1100 additional residents who drew a LQ tag would have hunted general had they not drawn LQ.

Assumption for sure. Probably closer to 90% than it is 100%.

 

[perma]

Better step it up, governor's and commission tags aren't cheap in Wyoming and we're never going to have transferable landowner tags

CO is a good example of why landowner tags are just a bad idea. They take away from the draw only to mark up the “price” to the moon. Now we get into the discussion of it being a rich man’s game.

 

[Treeshark]

Now we get into the discussion of it being a rich man’s game.

This is a fair point, but a lot of the Colorado landowner tags really aren’t that expensive. And if someone can’t afford to or doesn’t want to pursue that option, they have the option of the regular draw.

Speaking of turning hunting into a rich man’s game, have you seen the new Wyoming special draw fees coming? How is a blue collar guy supposed to afford that? If they can’t afford or don’t want to pay they, they also have the opportunity to participate in the regular draw.

 

[perma]

This is a fair point, but a lot of the Colorado landowner tags really aren’t that expensive.

Speaking of turning hunting into a rich man’s game, have you seen the new Wyoming special draw fees coming? How is a blue collar fella supposed to afford that?

Cheap for the landowner to draw it, yes. For the end user in a unit in the southern part of the state, you’re looking at about triple the price of the new WY elk prices (NEW normal draw prices). At least that’s what I was quoted from two different ranchers. One I have relations to, the other I knew of. This price excludes access/guide/etc.

Who hasn’t seen them? They’re steep indeed, in fact, the special draw is not TOO far from the quotes I got. But it’s still four figures far.

I’d recommend financial peace university by Dave Ramsey to determine how/if people can afford it. Be warned; you may be enticed to sell your truck per his recommendations.

 

[perma]

My other argument with that WY elk price is that, while yes indeed very expensive, the state gets all of that money to put back into the wildlife. Landowner tags only benefit two people; the landowner and the tag holder. Maybe a third person in the guide who bought the landowner tag and marked it up again to said tag holder. The wildlife gets nothing from that markup.

 

[Nick87]

I don't get it.

 

[Treeshark]

I appreciate the response perma- we may see this from different points of view, but I enjoy hearing opposing viewpoints when discussed civilly.

 

[perma]

I appreciate the response perma- we may see this from different points of view, but I enjoy hearing opposing viewpoints when discussed civilly.

Agreed. The sad reality is that no matter what decisions are made, someone or something has to suffer.

 

[375H&H]

This is a fair point, but a lot of the Colorado landowner tags really aren’t that expensive. And if someone can’t afford to or doesn’t want to pursue that option, they have the option of the regular draw.

Speaking of turning hunting into a rich man’s game, have you seen the new Wyoming special draw fees coming? How is a blue collar guy supposed to afford that? If they can’t afford or don’t want to pay they, they also have the opportunity to participate in the regular draw.

Where is the balance? Some people on here want the average Joe to be able to afford all of the tags, but then those same people complain about a doe antelope tag being $35 and the animal being worth more alive. So then they buy a bunch of tags and eat them.

Which is it? Cheap so everyone can afford them or an arbitrary number that “seems reasonable” to some but not all?

 

[SAJ-99]

CO is a good example of why landowner tags are just a bad idea. They take away from the draw only to mark up the “price” to the moon. Now we get into the discussion of it being a rich man’s game.

Part of me (the economist part) says I would like to see a true suppy/demand, capital solution be implemented for a few years. My guess would be in 5yrs, the zone that require some work from the hunter would drop in price dramatically, while those that require an outfitter with a lease would probably stay pricey. Sure, it’s a fantasy, but it sure would be interesting.

 

[Archer86]

Not true, 1100 NR's spread out over all the general units means exactly zip, in particular if you take into account the 1100 Residents that aren't hunting general areas because they drew a LQ tag.

So if the nr regions and cap increase go through for nr they are adding roughly 1000 extra nr tags and those are all based on wildlife numbers correct so they can't just add in 1100 tags from the LQ nr lost correct?

So when residents finally get 90 10 and we absolutely should if the regions and cap are removed. Those tags that nr loose shouldn't be added in the regions correct and it will only remove the resident pressure that drew LQ tags

 

[Deleted member 18333]

So if the nr regions and cap increase go through for nr they are adding roughly 1000 extra nr tags and those are all based on wildlife numbers correct so they can't just add in 1100 tags from the LQ nr lost correct?

So when residents finally get 90 10 and we absolutely should if the regions and cap are removed. Those tags that nr loose shouldn't be added in the regions correct and it will only remove the resident pressure that drew LQ tags

What he is referring to is if Wyo was to implement 90/10 for elk under the current 7250 cap it would increase NR Gen tags by around 1100. 7250 - NR FP LQ = NR Gen tags.

At this point it is unknown how many NR Gen licenses would be issued should the 7250 cap go away. G&F has made a proposal but nothing has been decided. Those decisions would not happen until seasons setting commission meetings. And they would happen every year. The numbers can and will change. The current proposal by the G&F, if the 7250 cap goes away, is to issue 4325 NR Gen licenses. Currently the G&F issues around 4225 NR Gen tags in a given year.

 

[TOGIE]

This is a fair point, but a lot of the Colorado landowner tags really aren’t that expensive.

that ranch i'm familiar with charges 5k for their mule deer tags.

'spensive

i think the landowner tags do come with positives and negatives. as ben lamb put it once, landowner tolerance of high game numbers was purchased by CPW with transferable vouchers. landowners have incentive to maintain quality habitat with landowner vouchers.

is that why colorado has so many freakin elk? hard to say, i highly doubt it, but i'm sure it contributes.

at the end of the day it's an egregious violation of the tenets of the NAM - a non insignificant number of tags pulled from the public pool to be granted to larger landowners and can (and typically are) transferred for considerable profit. it's the definition of commercialization and privatization.

i'm not exactly crying though because i have no shortage of deer and elk tags at my fingertips. but, as things tighten up with allocations you have to remember that whenever colorado is talking about moving to 80/20, or whatever, we're not actually talking about 80/20. we're really talking about 80% of 80% of the tags and 20% of 80% of the tags, because the landowners get their 20% cut of the public pool of the fully limited tags first. that is a big steaming crock of bullshit.

 

[Treeshark]

that ranch i'm familiar with charges 5k for their mule deer tags.

Great post TOGIE, I mostly agree with your listing of pros and cons.

As for the above quote- there are quite a few that are considerably less than that. $5k is a decent chunk of change to be sure, and isn’t an attractive option for everyone. Such is life though, right?

Also I do wonder if they actually get $5k? As the start of the season draws closer, those tags become a lot more negotiable. So I’ve heard, anyway- I’ve never had any personal experience with such things of course

 

[TOGIE]

There are quite a few that are considerably less than that. $5k is a decent chunk of change to be sure- wonder if they actually get $5k? As the start of the season draws closer, those tags become a lot more negotiable. Or so I’ve heard, I’ve never had any experience with such things

they do have some pretty big deer on the property (5,000ish acres) and most of the quality mule deer habitat in the unit is private. but i don't doubt it. there are lot of tags that simply aren't worth 5k even on private land.

 

[BrentD]

Great post TOGIE, I mostly agree with your listing of pros and cons.

As for the above quote- there are quite a few that are considerably less than that. $5k is a decent chunk of change to be sure, and isn’t an attractive option for everyone. Such is life though, right?

Also I do wonder if they actually get $5k? As the start of the season draws closer, those tags become a lot more negotiable. So I’ve heard, anyway- I’ve never had any personal experience with such things of course

So the way to plan an out of state elk hunt it to wait until the last moment and hope to find an affordable cheap tag at the last moment on which to spend your precious vacation time and money? uh huh.