Wildife Task force 90-10, etc.

[PAhunter]

How many years would it take to get through the current NR point holders?

Only God knows because mortality of point holders is by far the largest factor in an accurate answer to that question.

 

[JM77]

I would not mind seeing a settlement of a system where we Go 80/20 on the split, 5% of tags from the 20 are specific for outfitters to draw and resell but we then give up the Wilderness rule?
Or create a pool of tags that will guarantee a small number or transferable tags to landowners who allow public hunting on property that they could sell in exchange for public access.
I honestly hate all these options, because having seen Colorado systems etc. they will never have enough and they will slowly keep taking a little more and giving even less.

I'm not sure I get what you are saying here. Deer and antelope are already 80/20 and elk is 84/16. On top of that you want to give outfitter set-asides for the wilderness rule and landowner transferable tags?
Oh, sorry I see you hate these options, my mistake.

 

[Oak]

@Oak 75% of NR moose and sheep tags go into the PP drawing. This is accomplished using the total number of tags available, not by how many tags are available per area. Therefore, with 90/10, there will still be 25% of available NR tags in the random draw.

I see the TF discussing changing this to a 50/50 split PP/Random.

The split between NR PP and random tags is currently calculated by the quota in each unit, which means that the random side gets far less than 25% of the NR allocation. In 2021, there are 180 ram tags in the state, meaning NR get 45 at the current 75/25 split. If you look at the draw stats NR drew 45 tags, 39 in the PP pool (86.6%) and 6 in the random pool (13.3%). The random pool should have gotten 11 ram tags.

All I'm asking is how they might change that in the new allocation system. It sounds like they are considering 50/50, which under a new 90/10 allocation would 9 PP and 9 random using the 2021 total quota. Thanks for the info.

 

[JM77]

The split between NR PP and random tags is currently calculated by the quota in each unit, which means that the random side gets far less than 25% of the NR allocation. In 2021, there are 180 ram tags in the state, meaning NR get 45 at the current 75/25 split. If you look at the draw stats NR drew 45 tags, 39 in the PP pool (86.6%) and 6 in the random pool (13.3%). The random pool should have gotten 11 ram tags.

All I'm asking is how they might change that in the new allocation system. It sounds like they are considering 50/50, which under a new 90/10 allocation would 9 PP and 9 random using the 2021 total quota. Thanks for the info.

Yes, I stand corrected, G&F currently uses total tags to determine resident and NR allocation, but uses area quotas to determine PP/random numbers. We can make sure this is brought up in the TF as it is certainly inconsistent and favors the PP side. I think it's also safe to say 50/50 will be a discussion.

 

[RobertD]

90/10 has way more significance to big 5 since its almost all point holders than deer/elk/lope people are not realizing. Yes it will impact more tags on DEA but remember the system has some things that can be used to benefit NRs. Elk 7250, i have heard NOTHING on changing that number so it just means few more NRs hunters with generals rather than LE but still SAME number of tags! Deer is non significant change as NRs compete agsinst each other, not residents(otc) for the regional tags since just few LE. Lope could be issue but as we discussed rollover and other tools can used, but remember NRs hold more antelope tags than residents every year so obviously split percentages are not the only factor in number of tags. I would like to see all NR generals deer/elk be bow OR gun and put more more tags in those pools to increase NR oppurtunity while putting LE units on 10% cap. So lets say current allotment of 7250 elk tags went to 7500 then split that 60/40 into a -9 or -1 pools. What i absolutely dont want is more point programs or any outfitter set aside program/transferable tags as they only open door for future expansion of welfare and abuse tags. 90/10 will happen, its just a matter of when but i think there are ways to basically exchange a couple LE tags for many more general type hunts for NRs.

Wish you were on the task force bud.

I've talked about it with others before, antelope just needs to go to a system where residents get a extra chance at tags before they roll over. You could leave allocation at 80/20 or move to 90/10 and achieve this goal while still being the top NR antelope hunting state opportunity-wise. Win win win.

 

[RobertD]

I think it's also safe to say 50/50 will be a discussion.

I've got no skin in the game for the "Big 5" in WY or elsewhere, but I'll be interested in seeing how that discussion goes.

 

[Pucky Freak]

antelope just needs to go to a system where residents get a extra chance at tags before they roll over.

Could you elaborate on that? They get 2nd and 3rd choice options on their application now. Or am I mixing up ideas?

 

[BuzzH]

Wish you were on the task force bud.

I've talked about it with others before, antelope just needs to go to a system where residents get a extra chance at tags before they roll over. You could leave allocation at 80/20 or move to 90/10 and achieve this goal while still being the top NR antelope hunting state opportunity-wise. Win win win.

No matter what happens, NR's are going to still likely get 50% of the available pronghorn tags, its just a matter of where, not if.

 

[BuzzH]

Could you elaborate on that? They get 2nd and 3rd choice options on their application now. Or am I mixing up ideas?

We do, but every year second and third choice areas become less and less assured. The unit I used to apply for second choice just a few years back, is not even available second choice.

The area I drew second choice this year, was available as a leftover when I moved here and is now just barely assured second choice. Same area 2 years ago was 100% third choice...not this year.

Things are tightening up for Residents and why they want the changes. The days of Residents being assured tags, even applying smartly, are fading fast.

 

[BuzzH]

The split between NR PP and random tags is currently calculated by the quota in each unit, which means that the random side gets far less than 25% of the NR allocation. In 2021, there are 180 ram tags in the state, meaning NR get 45 at the current 75/25 split. If you look at the draw stats NR drew 45 tags, 39 in the PP pool (86.6%) and 6 in the random pool (13.3%). The random pool should have gotten 11 ram tags.

All I'm asking is how they might change that in the new allocation system. It sounds like they are considering 50/50, which under a new 90/10 allocation would 9 PP and 9 random using the 2021 total quota. Thanks for the info.

There's going to have to be an allocation change between Random and Points...no doubt.

One thing that's always bothered me is that areas like 12, 19, and others that only have NR tags once in a while or less than 4...always go to max or near max point holders. I always thought a more fair way to do that would be to alternate years between random and preference point to give NR's without max points a shot at the better sheep tags (as well as those sheep areas without the wilderness guide law).

The Wilderness guide law is a PITA for all kinds of reasons...

 

[RobertD]

Could you elaborate on that? They get 2nd and 3rd choice options on their application now. Or am I mixing up ideas?

Basically residents never use up their 80 percent of tags. So NRs get 20 plus whatever the residents don't use up.

A new system would involve a sort of leftover draw for residents that takes place after their initial draw but before our NR draw. So if a resident misses on their first attempt, they'll have an opportunity to basically take a second crack at the 80 or 90 percent available to them.

The 20 or 10 for NR will exists outside of this and the remaining portion of the 80 or 90 will be added to it for the NR draw as it is right now.

I believe staying 80/20 with a second resident draw is better for both NR and residents than going to 90/10 without one.

 

[BuzzH]

Basically residents never use up their 80 percent of tags. So NRs get 20 plus whatever the residents don't use up.

A new system would involve a sort of leftover draw for residents that takes place after their initial draw but before our NR draw. So if a resident misses on their first attempt, they'll have an opportunity to basically take a second crack at the 80 or 90 percent available to them.

The 20 or 10 for NR will exists outside of this and the remaining portion of the 80 or 90 will be added to it for the NR draw as it is right now.

I believe staying 80/20 with a second resident draw is better for both NR and residents than going to 90/10 without one.

Only better for NR's...

A second choice tag in a mediocre area sounds great/good to a NR that comes here on vacation. Different thought process when you give up earning potential, live in a crap climate, impede your career development...all for the outdoors lifestyle. There's a reason for WY's low population.

If I can't hunt better areas here, may as well move and make more money and just buy hunts...

 

[Pucky Freak]

Basically residents never use up their 80 percent of tags. So NRs get 20 plus whatever the residents don't use up.

A new system would involve a sort of leftover draw for residents that takes place after their initial draw but before our NR draw. So if a resident misses on their first attempt, they'll have an opportunity to basically take a second crack at the 80 or 90 percent available to them.

The 20 or 10 for NR will exists outside of this and the remaining portion of the 80 or 90 will be added to it for the NR draw as it is right now.

I believe staying 80/20 with a second resident draw is better for both NR and residents than going to 90/10 without one.

No matter which way I slice it, I can’t make sense of a second resident antelope draw before the NR draw. What if they went to 90/10 plus choices 1-5 on the application? That way the R could pick 3 desirable tag options, plus a couple back ups. The way it is now a lot of R’s are drawing their 3rd choice and being stuck in substandard units, which I think is far from equitable considering the size of the resource.

 

[RobertD]

Only better for NR's...

A second choice tag in a mediocre area sounds great/good to a NR that comes here on vacation. Different thought process when you give up earning potential, live in a crap climate, impede your career development...all for the outdoors lifestyle. There's a reason for WY's low population.

If I can't hunt better areas here, may as well move and make more money and just buy hunts...

For sure, and you know the finer points of the system way, way more intimately than I do.

I'm just saying that I think a second draw for residents will move the needle on resident satisfaction more than just an allocation change alone would.

 

[RobertD]

No matter which way I slice it, I can’t make sense of a second resident antelope draw before the NR draw. What if they went to 90/10 plus choices 1-5 on the application? That way the R could pick 3 desirable tag options, plus a couple back ups. The way it is now a lot of R’s are drawing their 3rd choice and being stuck in substandard units, which I think is far from equitable considering the size of the resource.

Agree. And I don't know, what you've proposed here may work better than a second draw.

I'm just working from the idea that residents should have an improved mechanism for getting the most out of their allocated tags. However it happens is less important to me than that it does, because I'm afraid going straight 90/10 with no other chage to benefit residents will just lead us right back to where we are now.

 

[Hunt West]

Only better for NR's...

A second choice tag in a mediocre area sounds great/good to a NR that comes here on vacation. Different thought process when you give up earning potential, live in a crap climate, impede your career development...all for the outdoors lifestyle. There's a reason for WY's low population.

If I can't hunt better areas here, may as well move and make more money and just buy hunts...

Purchasing a bull elk tag and deer tag at the local gas station for some of the best hunting in the west, getting 84% LE bull tags, and 80% of the deer, is still pretty good incentive to live in WY for the outdoors lifestyle. I get it though because if I were a resident I’d be pushing for 100/0 split on trophy species, 90/10 on DEA.

 

[cur dog]

Only better for NR's...

A second choice tag in a mediocre area sounds great/good to a NR that comes here on vacation. Different thought process when you give up earning potential, live in a crap climate, impede your career development...all for the outdoors lifestyle. There's a reason for WY's low population.

If I can't hunt better areas here, may as well move and make more money and just buy hunts...

Oh good grief! Go ahead and move already. What is it you hate the worst about living in Wyoming? Is it high property taxes? Is it is the lack of a state income tax? Being surrounded by wildlife and outdoor activities? Have you ever been to Minnesota, northern Wisconsin or the Dakotas in the winter. Maybe, its your Job that allows you to be online all day whining about the injustices of your world.

 

[cur dog]

No matter what happens, NR's are going to still likely get 50% of the available pronghorn tags, its just a matter of where, not if.

Very expensive tags in areas with little public land, poor access and poor quality. Gee, thanks!

 

[RobertD]

Very expensive tags in areas with little public land, poor access and poor quality. Gee, thanks!

I'm with you in pursuing our best interest as NRs.

But 50 percent of available tags is still a better deal than literally any other state in the country on their best day.

Proposed changes will make it harder on NRs to hunt the best units for sure... but I bet Wyoming's BEST units will remain more accessible than anything in Arizona, Nevada, Utah etc.

Mid tier units will still be accessible with some time/effort and the lower tier units may even be easier to get.

No offense, I just think we gotta be appreciative and realistic if we want to represent our side of the discussion well.

 

[cur dog]

I'm with you in pursuing our best interest as NRs.

But 50 percent of available tags is still a better deal than literally any other state in the country on their best day.

Proposed changes will make it harder on NRs to hunt the best units for sure... but I bet Wyoming's BEST units will remain more accessible than anything in Arizona, Nevada, Utah etc.

Mid tier units will still be accessible with some time/effort and the lower tier units may even be easier to get.

No offense, I just think we gotta be appreciative and realistic if we want to represent our side of the discussion well.

No offense taken. I just really question Buzz and his motivation for posting this thread. Its no secret that He and others were bent when 90/10 wasn't passed awhile back. I'm quite certain he's enjoying the opportunity to needle NR's.