Wild Horses and Burros Film

[Southern Elk]

Mostly true, technically the earliest direct ancestor to the modern horse evolved here in North America. That ancestor, Eohippus migrated to Asia and the last North American species Equus simplicidens died out around 10,000 years ago. There is a hypothesis that human hunters were a driving factor in the extinction to horses, and that the Spanish were actually doing a re-introduction.

None of this changes the fact that they were absent from the landscape for 10,000 years, the landscape changed without them and they are now a feral invasive that needs to be managed.

That’s why I said “these horses”. I think horses have changed so much from being domesticated and bred for certain traits that they would look nothing like their ancestors who were here.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

@Southern Elk you are spot on, I think these horses are as close to ancient horses as African cheetah are the the extinct North American cheetah...

 

[Sytes]

Great video. Seen it floating around various platforms.

Perception is reality for many Americans.

 

[OzzyDave]

That was a great little video. The scenes around the water holes would have been heavily edited I’m sure.
Like I’ve mentioned in previous threads, some places I hunt, it is compulsory to shoot horses and donkeys BUT they are not listed as protected here.
I wish you folks luck with your conundrum.

 

[JM77]

And meanwhile here in Wyoming the federal government, with the help of the Wyoming Game & Fish Dept, is about to begin the eradication of a wild Mountain Goat population in around Teton Park.

Most feral horses in Wyoming are in and around the Red Desert. It is very apparent when you enter their "domain". Horses leave quite a mark on the land they reside on. Fifty plus years ago, a herd populated to some 300 head along the northern Medicine Bow National Forest in the Deer Creek Range. That herd was removed completely, due mostly to private land conflicts I am told. Remnants of the old make-shift horse trap still exist there in a tight pass along the mountain, where Big Fin has chased elk not far from my home.

As long as the Wild Horse and Burro Act exists in it's current form, no real solution is possible. Common sense is on the wrong side of the law.

 

[jryoung]

 

[BluegrassBilly]

Emotion often gets in the way of good public policy decision making.

 

[mountainhawks]

Living and recreating in the heart of feral horse country and working in the habitat they impact has been a disheartening endeavor my entire career. I started my career in the position that Cody (the NDOW cutthroat biologist in the video) currently holds and in the short time I have been involved I have watched a number of northern Nevada high desert streams that are/were home to native cutthroat trout become degraded to the point of extirpation of the fish in those systems. Cody did a great job in the limited exposure he was given trying to convey the true impacts of horses on the species that are less charismatic to the general public. I'll never understand how more funding and support is given to a feral species on the landscape while the native species in the highly fragile sagebrush ecosystems continue to suffer (I mean, I understand, but from a logical standpoint I don't get what these people are thinking). Of all the things impacting these systems (mining, ag, development, fire and invasives), the one that seems like it should be the easiest to get a handle on is horses but because of emotional sentiment they are the hardest to handle. Hopefully this video can be shared on all platforms and maybe sways an opinion or two. I'm tired of driving home every day and passing by no less than a dozen bright yellow "We support wild horses" signs that are placed in direct opposition to a BLM proposal to remove a number of feral animals from one of the mountain ranges here. I'm considering printing up some "Feral" stickers to place over the "Wild" on these signs...

 

[mtmiller]

Can someone tell me what is in the bottom of this shot?

 

[Southern Elk]

Dried up water tank?

 

[mountainhawks]

Can someone tell me what is in the bottom of this shot?
View attachment 103388

Water tank for cattle... kind of ironic.

 

[mtmiller]

Haha. Yeah, strange logic to use if you want to protect a wet meadow. I just chuckled when I saw that clip. There are definitely horse issues, but blaming dewatering of this meadow on horses doesn't jive.

 

[mountainhawks]

Haha. Yeah, strange logic to use if you want to protect a wet meadow. I just chuckled when I saw that clip. There are definitely horse issues, but blaming dewatering of this meadow on horses doesn't jive.

Agreed, and that point has been brought up in regards to specific allotments in that area. The one difference is good cattle operators generally abide by their permits and the cows are off those meadows when prescribed. The horses just camp out. There's also been a ton of work done to develop off-site water for cattle with riparian fencing with fair success, unfortunately the horses seem to have a knack for dismantling some pretty impressive fences.

 

[mtmiller]

unfortunately the horses seem to have a knack for dismantling some pretty impressive fences.

I don't have horse issues, but sometimes those damn July hunters leave gates open.

 

[MTGomer]

“Democrats are the party of the public land hunter. We must elect them.”

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[matt0550]

One of the guests on the recent Meateater podcast hit the nail on the head. I'm paraphrasing, but he said that nothing is likely to change because no politician is going to vote for the killing of horses.

Which is truly a shame. How did our Nation become who it is? Striking out against popularity to do what is right, thats how...the modern politician is largely a skilled coward and used car salesman (I know there are many shining exceptions, but this appears to be the rule these days).

I would support any and every regulated, well assembled market for Horse. Ive eaten it without knowing and honestly it was a great meal - I had the same meal 5 more times and realized that i actually liked it!

 

[shb]

How many would buy a tag and put a horse in the freezer.....if it was another big game hunting opportunity.

They are just as delicious as a cow elk.











If they offered a value conscious tag for them, (you know, an alternative to the rapey prices being charged on elk tags), once again the sportsmen of this country would step up and pay the govt to solve its problem, as opposed to the govt spending 50million of our money to be hamstrung by pillow biters, and cat ladys. That's a Win!

Increase opportunity for growing numbers of people who want to go hunting out west - Win!

Economic stimulus provided by guys chasing horses for the freezer - Win!

Heal the damage these noxious invasive species have wreaked - Win!

When you bring populations back in line with carrying capacity it makes life sooo much better for the remaining horses, and all the native wild life. (Wild life that's paying the freight for all cat lady's horse fantasies.) - Win !


Win !
Win !
Win !
Win !
Win !


Once you create a value for something there's no end to the winning.










Intuitively Cat lady's and hunters seem like oil and water. But, if the cat lady's sat down and thought about it..........


The first thing they should do is use their screeching power to urge a hunting season on these horses. Its been proven time and time again that sportsmen will save, protect, and pay to manage the animals they cherish.

For example:

Rmef
DU
TU
MD Foundation
Pheasants Forever
Quail Unlimited
Etc
Etc
Etc

 

[Irrelevant]

Using Economics to try to persuade people to adopt. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/bureau...l-pay-you-1000-to-adopt-a-mustang-wild-horse/

 

[88man]

I think you can take anything that Ben Masters makes to the bank. This was a great followup (though too short) to Unbranded.

I really like unBranded

 

[bushman13]

Totally agree with your points, but I'm guessing the wild pig problem is currently way worse than the wild horse problem.

Certain cultural changes need to take place before this problem can go away.

Firstly there needs to be a cultural swing in the west toward consuming horse meat, domestic and wild. In addition to that there needs to be federal help to regulate the safety of such, primarily when domestic is concerned.. That's a short statement, but it asks a lot.

Secondly there needs to be the same cultural uprising regarding the use of Horse meat as a suitable pet food. This is also critical, if not more critical than the first. Rather then spending millions on this re-homing program, the fed's should be spending millions on advocating and legalizing horse meat, and pushing that with benefits to the big pet food companies.

These two in conjunction will A. raise the market value of the domestic horse. (KEY, KEY, KEY). B. It will help initiate a management strategy that is not only humane, but also have dollar and cent back-game which is where it really suffers.

Once the wheels are in motion with the above, should we hunt them? Absolutely. But a hunt isn't the end-all answer, or even the beginning without the first two taking significant ground culturally, at least in the Western states.

Look to examples of Asian and European countries in which horse meat at the local deli is the norm, and dead horses are common snacks for our feline and k-9 friends. They have no such issue with wild horses. We wouldn't either if people (and naturally mostly women) wouldn't get so offended at the mere thought of killing these animals. It's a fact of life that we as a country must come to grips with. The horse is a natural resource, same as the goat, the chicken, the pig. Regardless of it's other uses.

Wild pigs would be just as bad if suddenly the pig farmers and packers weren't permitted to sell their meat to the public at large.

The crime does not fall to the Horse itself. It falls to the USDA and other federal agencies.

- Joseph