What should my next steps be?

[COElkChaser]

Just starting out in the world of reloading, and got out to the range this week to test my first loads.

I'm shooting a 30-06, and I full-length sized once fired nosler brass. I loaded 168gr TTSX with H4350 from 53 - 56 gr with 0.5 gr increments. I made up 3x of each and measured group size at 100 yards.

There were no signs of excess pressure that I could see, but I did notice that closing the bolt was more difficult on some cartridges. Was my sizing die set up incorrectly?

What do you make of these groups? Makes sense to test out more of the 54gr I think, but I would like to explore higher powder weights as well. 58 gr seems pretty common and there weren't any issues at 56 gr so I may step up in more 0.5 gr steps. Any and all thoughts appreciated, thanks!

 

[1_pointer]

Max as listed by Barnes for that combination is 55.5gr... I wouldn't be comfortable going up to 58gr.

As far as the hard closing, I'd be sure to check to make sure you're not hitting the lands with the bullets. Sharpie is your friend! I'd retest the 54-55gr again. If it replicates, I'd run with it! 3 shot groups lead plenty of room for a false positive...

https://www.barnesbullets.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/30-06Springfield.pdf

 

[HiMtnHntr]

On the hard bolt close, it could be you need to bump the shoulder back a bit more during resizing or you could have incorrectly set your seater. I always cycle a few resized brass to check, and typically make a dummy round with a seated bullet when testing new bullets.

As far as your groups, I'd make 5 or so around 54 and the another 5 up above 56 (I don't know what your book max is). Its not uncommon to see good accuracy at lower charges and again at higher charges. If 54 gives you good enough velocity and good accuracy, well, you can't beat that.

I'm assuming you are seating to book specs, but after you find a charge you like you can fiddle with seating depth.

 

[EastTNHunter]

My experience with that specific bullet in that cartridge was that it was VERY difficult to get repeatable accuracy results, but every rifle is different. I would go with the one that gave you the best accuracy and load up a few .3gr lighter, .3gr heavier, and of the same weight and see if you get repeatable results. If you’d like ten you can then tweak seating depth up and down a little at a time to see if accuracy improves, but .6” accuracy at 100yd is pretty dang awesome for a hunting rifle.

As far as hard bolt close, I agree with the others that it could be that you need a little more bump on the shoulder (be careful not to overdo it) or that your OAL may be causing your bullet to contact the lands. The latter can be dangerous with any rifle if it is not accounted for in your load plan, and especially so with a monolithic bullet.

 

[Carbon]

What did your extreme spreads look like? It can speak to the individual loads and also your loading techniques, given that you said that you're an inexperienced reloader. If you have low ESs, even on 3 shot groups, I'd put more faith in your small group initil results. If the ESs are higher than 30-40 fps, I'd probably redo it with more shots at each weight.

As others have said, hard bolt close is either reszing die not screwed in far enough (small adjustments can have large effects on pushing the neck back) or bullet in the lands. If you loaded to a book COAL, your sizing die needs to be screwed down in small increments. If you don't have the tools to measure neck bump yet, you can size fired brass and see if it chambers easily. If not, screw the die another 1/8 turn and try again until if chambers without the bold being tight.

 

[COElkChaser]

I don't have a chrono so I can't speak to spread...

I loaded these to Barnes recommended COAL, so I'm assuming it was a sizing issue? Do you all set up your die to just touch the shell holder when the ram is all the way up? Like this video

 

[MThuntr]

I don't have a chrono so I can't speak to spread...

I loaded these to Barnes recommended COAL, so I'm assuming it was a sizing issue? Do you all set up your die to just touch the shell holder when the ram is all the way up? Like this video

It depends on the brand of die. Some you need to turn in a little to get a cam over. If you're getting tight brass on bolt close then you may need to turn your die in a small amount (1/16 to 1/8 of a turn). I believe most if not all Lee FL dies need to be turned in a touch after raise the press ram to get cam over. You have to find the sweet spot and to get enough shoulder bump but not too much to crush the case.

Also if you're serious about reloading I'd invest in a chronograph. I like the MagnetoSpeed and LabRadar versions over the shoot through system. I do notice a correlation between efficient cartridge burns (low extreme spreads and standard deviations of velocity) and accuracy.

 

[JLS]

58 gr seems pretty common and there weren't any issues at 56 gr so I may step up in more 0.5 gr steps.

Don’t interchange H4350 and IMR 4350. No way I’d go to 58. If you’re absolutely certain there are no pressure signs I’d maybe try 56.5, but I’m not a big fan of exceeding maximum loads by very much.

I second investing in a chronograph.

When you really start to dial in groups you’ll be better served to use five shot groups. If you’re going to dial turrets and want a true MOA measure, you’ll want 7-10 shots of the same load.

 

[cahunter805]

I don't have a chrono so I can't speak to spread...

I loaded these to Barnes recommended COAL, so I'm assuming it was a sizing issue? Do you all set up your die to just touch the shell holder when the ram is all the way up? Like this video

What brand of press and dies? The directions with most FL sizing dies are very general and normally are always bumping the shoulder way to much.

The best way to setup a FL die is to use a headspace comparator and measure your fired brass. Set the die in the press and with the ram all the way up screw it in until it touches the shell holder. Now BACK the die off at least one full turn. Lube the case body and inside neck and run it into the die. Measure the shoulder with your comparator. Keep sneaking the die down until you bump the shoulder back about .002. Size a few more and measure them. Then lock the die down and size the rest.

 

[1_pointer]

I don't have a chrono so I can't speak to spread...

I loaded these to Barnes recommended COAL, so I'm assuming it was a sizing issue? Do you all set up your die to just touch the shell holder when the ram is all the way up? Like this video

How are you measuring COAL? If to the tip of the bullet, you could be seeing variability in the base to lands. Also, you said this was once fired Nosler brass. Was this fired in the rifle the handloads were used in?

If it's more than a bit harder (and or troublesome) I'd find one that is tougher to chamber after resizing and then mess with the die until it chambers like you want it to.

 

[COElkChaser]

What brand of press and dies?

I'm using Hornady press and dies

How are you measuring COAL?

I started measuring COAL with calipers from base to tip, but saw variation due to the plastic tip. I 3D printed an attachment to my calipers that allows me to take a measurement from the same place on the ogive, similar to Hornady's OAL guage.

 

[Chippewa]

What rifle are you loading for. If rem700 its real helpfull for getting your shoulder bumps correct resize you fire formed case with firing pin removed so can load your fully expanded case a feel bolt close tension then with comparator set your die to a true .002 or .003" bump back.
You should feel no close tension.
Great videos for all this at longrangeonly.com
Also probly obvious but be sure to get your case trimmed to proper length.

 

[COElkChaser]

The rifle is a Bergara B14 Hunter, so a Rem700 clone. Not sure how close the process is for this firing pin vs the 700 but good info all the same

 

[Chippewa]

Your B14 bolt is easier than a rem700 to disassemble the bolt. Just need 50thou allen wrench as a pin in the decocking slot an unscrew.

 

[Don Fischer]

This is a brand new reloader and he should be setting up his die as directed by the manufacturer Also he should be seating his bullet's to what his manual tells him. Yet several have suggested he bump the shoulder back a little, some how I doubt he really understands that, he's new! Few other said he may be getting the bullet into the lands. Could be but if he's loading according to his manual, i doubt it. OP, start over and read the direction's for installing the sizing die and do it that way. Learn to make good ammo first then the over all length measurement you manual say's to load, they will fit. Once you re making good ammo then you can branch out to learn about (bumping) Partial sizing and seating depth that might improve the accuracy of your loads. Right now it doesn't sound to me like your in tune to make good ammo much less experiment with sizing and bullet seating.

 

[cahunter805]

This is a brand new reloader and he should be setting up his die as directed by the manufacturer Also he should be seating his bullet's to what his manual tells him. Yet several have suggested he bump the shoulder back a little, some how I doubt he really understands that, he's new! Few other said he may be getting the bullet into the lands. Could be but if he's loading according to his manual, i doubt it. OP, start over and read the direction's for installing the sizing die and do it that way. Learn to make good ammo first then the over all length measurement you manual say's to load, they will fit. Once you re making good ammo then you can branch out to learn about (bumping) Partial sizing and seating depth that might improve the accuracy of your loads. Right now it doesn't sound to me like your in tune to make good ammo much less experiment with sizing and bullet seating.

Sounds to me like the OP has a pretty decent grasp on loading already and is quite knowledgeable considering he is tracking his reloads with graphs and can use a 3D printer.
Why not teach him the correct way to setup his dies from the beginning instead of the junk generic instructions? Also measuring the lands is quite simple considering he already has a comparator and apparently knows how to use it.

COElk- Watch a few videos on measuring your lands if you would like to learn. Nothing wrong with loading to Barnes book length as most Mono bullets like a jump anyway. Sounds like your 54gr load was showing promise. I’d work up some loads with 54gr and test seating depth a bit. Try in .010 increments a little deeper and a little longer than your current load. I wouldn’t mess with loading much higher powder charges yet.

 

[COElkChaser]

Sounds to me like the OP has a pretty decent grasp on loading already and is quite knowledgeable considering he is tracking his reloads with graphs and can use a 3D printer.
Why not teach him the correct way to setup his dies from the beginning instead of the junk generic instructions? Also measuring the lands is quite simple considering he already has a comparator and apparently knows how to use it.

COElk- Watch a few videos on measuring your lands if you would like to learn. Nothing wrong with loading to Barnes book length as most Mono bullets like a jump anyway. Sounds like your 54gr load was showing promise. I’d work up some loads with 54gr and test seating depth a bit. Try in .010 increments a little deeper and a little longer than your current load. I wouldn’t mess with loading much higher powder charges yet.

Much appreciated, cahunter

I've sourced the problem to the sizing die - the manual says to screw it down until it touches the shell holder, but that didn't provide enough bump. I turned the die an additional 1/16 turn and my cases are fitting much better and the bolt is closing as expected.

I'm planning to load up more of the 54 gr at the current seating depth, then have a few with seating depth adjusted each way.

Thanks for the input and responses everyone, always good to touch base and get some different opinions

 

[Don Fischer]

Direction's I've read on installing sizing dies over the years say turn down to the shell holder then another 1/8 or 1/4 turn. pretty basic way of setting up the sizing die. But there are other ways. For example partial sizing sometimes called bumping the shoulder. If you have a bit larger than min chamber you can adjust the die to get the case to fit just that chamber. Seem's we sometime's overlook what seem's to us to be self evident and the newer reloader doesn't get it. Turns out rather than a mistake easily fixed it become's confusing. Not picking on you CoElkChaser, your a relatively new guy that simply missed setting up the die right and the answer to fixing your problem came out of nowhere.

In that you got the problem fixed with just a 1/16 turn could indicate you chamber might, MIGHT, be just a bit bigger than a min chamber Neither good or bad, just the way it is. I have two 243's Both have their own set of dies. For one rifle I set the die down to the shell holder. For the other there is a small gap between the die and the shell holder. Ammo for the first 243 from it's die will chamber fine in both rifle's But ammo from the second will only fit in the second. With the ammo from the second you can't close the bolt in the first rifle. It's what you've probably heard of as bumping the shoulder or partial sizing, what you were doing. It make's the sized case fit only that one rifle and the rifle it would fit wasn't your's. Now if you set up the die exactly as the manufacturer say's to, the case you get out of the die should fit every chamber with no problem's!

 

[Don Fischer]

Sounds to me like the OP has a pretty decent grasp on loading already and is quite knowledgeable considering he is tracking his reloads with graphs and can use a 3D printer.
Why not teach him the correct way to setup his dies from the beginning instead of the junk generic instructions? Also measuring the lands is quite simple considering he already has a comparator and apparently knows how to use it.

COElk- Watch a few videos on measuring your lands if you would like to learn. Nothing wrong with loading to Barnes book length as most Mono bullets like a jump anyway. Sounds like your 54gr load was showing promise. I’d work up some loads with 54gr and test seating depth a bit. Try in .010 increments a little deeper and a little longer than your current load. I wouldn’t mess with loading much higher powder charges yet.

As we see, he missed a very basic set up procedure. Teaching "junk generic instruction" Generally means that the case will be sized to fit all chamber's for that cartridge. So much for "junk generic instruction", they seemed to have worked and sounds like his chamber is just a bit larger than min. I'd say that's pretty basic! I don't recall ever reading in instruction's for installing a sizing die how to adjust the die for one chamber in particular. Not saying it wouldn't be a good idea either. The OP took a case fired in his chamber and ran it through a sizing die not properly adjusted and there was a problem. imagine that!

When all else fails, follow direction's!

 

[cahunter805]

Don
The factory directions didn’t work. He had to turn the die down more than stated which is common and typical of cheaper dies. We still don’t know how much the shoulder is being bumped. I prefer not to overwork my brass if I can help it.
I’m still perplexed by the OP sizing problem. I’m not sure the shoulder is the problem. He should be able to take a fired case and just neck size and it should chamber fine. Could be an oversized chamber or out of round.
Either way glad the OP got the cases to feed easy and go load and shoot some more tests and report back.