Schaaf
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Something something whiskey
What I learned about CWD after 17 years of direct involvement
- Thread starter Stay Sharp
- Start date
BrentD
Well-known member
In the FWIW column, prions of the type that cause scrappies in sheep and CJD in humans are not destroyed by burning not even in conventional, purpose built crematoriums for disposing of diseased animals. It somewhat boggles my mind that carbon bases proteins can't be incinerated into oblivion, but such is the case. I live 10 miles from the USDA National Animal Disease Labs where things like herds of sheep with scrapies, eventually end up. And for that purpose they built a special facility for chemically macerating (basically enzymatically digesting) such animals. And so a herd of such sheep sits now for over a decade because no landfill is willing to take the waste from such facility. But they are "safe". Oh Joy.
Anyway, relevant to this post, I seriously doubt that CWD prions are even slightly toasted by grassland or forest fires, so burning is not destroying prions, just moving them out of the standing, green vegetation (at most).
Anyway, relevant to this post, I seriously doubt that CWD prions are even slightly toasted by grassland or forest fires, so burning is not destroying prions, just moving them out of the standing, green vegetation (at most).
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noharleyyet
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#tagteam(cough)deprecation
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npaden
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Point #1, and this is more directed at Huntingwife than Stay Sharp, but I don't recall reading any studies that specifically address anything about plant uptake. I know there have been several studies relating to prions remaining viable in soil and even the type of soil making a big difference (I seem to recall clay soil holds the prions exceptionally well vs. sandy soils) but I don't remember anything on plant uptake of the prions.
The idea that you could bale hay and transport it and that hay would have prions in it seems to be a new stretch to me. The idea that a deer could eat some corn off the ground and actually come into contact with the soil would be much less of a stretch. I think the studies have mainly centered around animals being fed in pens with no actively growing plants in them though so I don't think the plant uptake has been tested one way or the other. I could be wrong though.
Point #2, There is clear documentation that cervid farmers have been responsible for the transmission of the disease with transporting animals across state lines and even transporting animals internationally. Conclusive proof of individual animals that were born in one game farm that had CWD and being transported to another game farm that then turned up positive and then wild cervids in the new location ended up positive. I don't have a link to any articles on this, but can recall reading several different ones. Cervid farmers are not our friends when it comes to CWD. Period.
My 2 cents. Nathan
Stay Sharp
Well-known member
google or yahoo this "plants uptake cwd prions" and then enjoy a Lon list of research and study data.
BrentD
Well-known member
Like this one?
From the Journal Prion.
Can plants serve as a vector for prions causing chronic wasting disease?
Jay Rasmussen,Brandon H Gilroyed,Tim Reuter,Sandor Dudas,Norman F Neumann,Aru Balachandran, show all
Pages 136-142 | Received 28 Nov 2013, Accepted 22 Jan 2014, Published online: 07 Feb 2014
Abstract
Prions, the causative agent of chronic wasting disease (CWD) enter the environment through shedding of bodily fluids and carcass decay, posing a disease risk as a result of their environmental persistence. Plants have the ability to take up large organic particles, including whole proteins, and microbes. This study used wheat (Triticum aestivum L.) to investigate the uptake of infectious CWD prions into roots and their transport into aerial tissues. The roots of intact wheat plants were exposed to infectious prions (PrPTSE) for 24 h in three replicate studies with PrPTSE in protein extracts being detected by western blot, IDEXX and Bio-Rad diagnostic tests. Recombinant prion protein (PrPC) bound to roots, but was not detected in the stem or leaves. Protease-digested CWD prions (PrPTSE) in elk brain homogenate interacted with root tissue, but were not detected in the stem. This suggests wheat was unable to transport sufficient PrPTSE from the roots to the stem to be detectable by the methods employed. Undigested PrPTSE did not associate with roots. The present study suggests that if prions are transported from the roots to the stems it is at levels that are below those that are detectable by western blot, IDEXX or Bio-Rad diagnostic kits.
And then here was this from a Masters Dissertation
Investigation on the uptake of functional proteins and infectious prions into wheat plants through the root system
Balanced against this
Volume 11, Issue 8, 26 May 2015, Pages 1168-1175
Author links open overlay panelSandraPritzkow1RodrigoMorales1FabioModa13UffafKhan1Glenn C.Telling2EdwardHoover2ClaudioSoto1
Show more
https://doi.org/10.1016/j.celrep.2015.04.036Get rights and content
Summary
Prions are the protein-based infectious agents responsible for prion diseases. Environmental prion contamination has been implicated in disease transmission. Here, we analyzed the binding and retention of infectious prion protein (PrPSc) to plants. Small quantities of PrPSc contained in diluted brain homogenate or in excretory materials (urine and feces) can bind to wheat grass roots and leaves. Wild-type hamsters were efficiently infected by ingestion of prion-contaminated plants. The prion-plant interaction occurs with prions from diverse origins, including chronic wasting disease. Furthermore, leaves contaminated by spraying with a prion-containing preparation retained PrPSc for several weeks in the living plant. Finally, plants can uptake prions from contaminated soil and transport them to aerial parts of the plant (stem and leaves). These findings demonstrate that plants can efficiently bind infectious prions and act as carriers of infectivity, suggesting a possible role of environmental prion contamination in the horizontal transmission of the disease.
There seems to be some evidence, and it's not a lot, that some plants may uptake prions from the soil, but this appears to still be under debate.
Perhaps it is possible, but certainly not particularly likely is my read on a quick scan of these and some other abstracts.
From the Journal Prion.
Can plants serve as a vector for prions causing chronic wasting disease?
Jay Rasmussen,Brandon H Gilroyed,Tim Reuter,Sandor Dudas,Norman F Neumann,Aru Balachandran, show all
Pages 136-142 | Received 28 Nov 2013, Accepted 22 Jan 2014, Published online: 07 Feb 2014
Abstract
Prions, the causative agent of chronic wasting disease (CWD) enter the environment through shedding of bodily fluids and carcass decay, posing a disease risk as a result of their environmental persistence. Plants have the ability to take up large organic particles, including whole proteins, and microbes. This study used wheat (Triticum aestivum L.) to investigate the uptake of infectious CWD prions into roots and their transport into aerial tissues. The roots of intact wheat plants were exposed to infectious prions (PrPTSE) for 24 h in three replicate studies with PrPTSE in protein extracts being detected by western blot, IDEXX and Bio-Rad diagnostic tests. Recombinant prion protein (PrPC) bound to roots, but was not detected in the stem or leaves. Protease-digested CWD prions (PrPTSE) in elk brain homogenate interacted with root tissue, but were not detected in the stem. This suggests wheat was unable to transport sufficient PrPTSE from the roots to the stem to be detectable by the methods employed. Undigested PrPTSE did not associate with roots. The present study suggests that if prions are transported from the roots to the stems it is at levels that are below those that are detectable by western blot, IDEXX or Bio-Rad diagnostic kits.
And then here was this from a Masters Dissertation
Investigation on the uptake of functional proteins and infectious prions into wheat plants through the root system
- Author / CreatorRasmussen, Jay D
- Prions are the proteinaceous particle responsible for infections in a class of neurodegenerative diseases. These diseases affect a number of mammals including cervids where it is termed Chronic Wasting Disease (CWD). Prions enter the environment and persist for years. Plants have the ability to take up large organic molecules like proteins and bacteria as a potential nitrogen source. This project used wheat (Triticum aestivum L.) to determine the reason for protein uptake in plants and if prions are also taken up by plants. We found that bovine serum albumin was not a suitable nitrogen source for plants but uptake of ovalbumin into the stem was possible when minor root damage was present. Conversely, CWD prions bound to the outside of wheat roots and were not taken up into the stem. This work suggests that plants do not act as a vector in the transmission of prion diseases such as CWD.
Balanced against this
Volume 11, Issue 8, 26 May 2015, Pages 1168-1175
Author links open overlay panelSandraPritzkow1RodrigoMorales1FabioModa13UffafKhan1Glenn C.Telling2EdwardHoover2ClaudioSoto1
Show more
https://doi.org/10.1016/j.celrep.2015.04.036Get rights and content
Summary
Prions are the protein-based infectious agents responsible for prion diseases. Environmental prion contamination has been implicated in disease transmission. Here, we analyzed the binding and retention of infectious prion protein (PrPSc) to plants. Small quantities of PrPSc contained in diluted brain homogenate or in excretory materials (urine and feces) can bind to wheat grass roots and leaves. Wild-type hamsters were efficiently infected by ingestion of prion-contaminated plants. The prion-plant interaction occurs with prions from diverse origins, including chronic wasting disease. Furthermore, leaves contaminated by spraying with a prion-containing preparation retained PrPSc for several weeks in the living plant. Finally, plants can uptake prions from contaminated soil and transport them to aerial parts of the plant (stem and leaves). These findings demonstrate that plants can efficiently bind infectious prions and act as carriers of infectivity, suggesting a possible role of environmental prion contamination in the horizontal transmission of the disease.
There seems to be some evidence, and it's not a lot, that some plants may uptake prions from the soil, but this appears to still be under debate.
Perhaps it is possible, but certainly not particularly likely is my read on a quick scan of these and some other abstracts.
Stay Sharp
Well-known member
contaminated soil (lots of data supporting that) and how its more infective that deer to deer transfer.
Plant uptake
Licking branches and rubs (licked and shared by multiple deer)
Exposed urine and feces, in scrapes, etc all contribute to the environmental reservoir that remains long after the hosts are gone.
1. There is no way to remove or cleanse the natural word of the prions.
2. There is no way to remove all the host animals (cervids) and the carriers that dont contract CWD but transmit it (fox, coyote, wolf, cross, raptors, voles, moles, etc)
When you solve both of those (stopping only one wont cut it), you stop CWD. Since we cannot do either, we cannot stop CWD. Shooting more, longer seasons, more tags, regulations, along those lines WILL NOT STOP CWD. That is the point of this thread. Yes, it slipped into full stupid mode for a moment thanks to a couple guys but when we get back to the heart of this thread it boils down to those 2 points.
Plant uptake
Licking branches and rubs (licked and shared by multiple deer)
Exposed urine and feces, in scrapes, etc all contribute to the environmental reservoir that remains long after the hosts are gone.
1. There is no way to remove or cleanse the natural word of the prions.
2. There is no way to remove all the host animals (cervids) and the carriers that dont contract CWD but transmit it (fox, coyote, wolf, cross, raptors, voles, moles, etc)
When you solve both of those (stopping only one wont cut it), you stop CWD. Since we cannot do either, we cannot stop CWD. Shooting more, longer seasons, more tags, regulations, along those lines WILL NOT STOP CWD. That is the point of this thread. Yes, it slipped into full stupid mode for a moment thanks to a couple guys but when we get back to the heart of this thread it boils down to those 2 points.
BrentD
Well-known member
Stay Sharp -
There is no way prions are being stopped period. Wisconsin took a chance back when it may have mattered, but they didn't get the full backing of the public or the legislature. I applaud them for the gamble they took in the few moments they had to actually do something. Now it is too late. So it won't stop and plant uptake or not, this genie ain't goin' back in her bottle. Ever.
There is no way prions are being stopped period. Wisconsin took a chance back when it may have mattered, but they didn't get the full backing of the public or the legislature. I applaud them for the gamble they took in the few moments they had to actually do something. Now it is too late. So it won't stop and plant uptake or not, this genie ain't goin' back in her bottle. Ever.
Stay Sharp
Well-known member
You are correct. It cannot be stopped in WI. This means it cannot be stopped anywhere since WI is not an island.
Stay Sharp
Well-known member
Stay Sharp
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BrentD
Well-known member
mad cow – barfblog
www.barfblog.com
that is not very convincing or relevant imo.
BrentD
Well-known member
This is the same study for which I posted and abstract above. It appears to be about the only one by my fairly superficial survey. I'm not particularly blown away. At all.
Stay Sharp
Well-known member
It proves that hamsters can contract a TSE from places infected from infected soil. I suggest it will also act the same with voles and moles and proves animals can contract a TSE from plant the uptake prions from soils.
Stay Sharp
Well-known member
and im perfectly ok with that.
Stay Sharp
Well-known member
earlier in this thread somebody asked about "strains" of CWD in various cervids. This sheds light on that question.
Breakthrough in chronic wasting disease research reveals distinct deer, elk prion strains
Researchers have developed a new gene-targeted approach to study chronic wasting disease in mice, allowing opportunities for research that has not previously existed.
www.sciencedaily.com
dannyb278
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I'm not quite sure what part of your history counts as "direct involvement" but much of what you are saying about baiting, hunter involvement and deer farms, and your thesis in general runs contrary to the words of a actual, white lab coat wearing expert, Bryan Richards (link below), lifelong deer hunter and Emerging Disease Coordinator of the USGS National Wildlife Health Center out of Wisconsin. This guy is a actual expert in the field, not one limited to armchair analysis for non-peer reviewed hunting forum diatribes.
I would warn anyone reading this post to consider it as opinion only, not fact, no matter how dressed up as fact this opinion is.
I would warn anyone reading this post to consider it as opinion only, not fact, no matter how dressed up as fact this opinion is.
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Hunting Wife
Well-known member
As @BrentD posted, plant uptake has been done experimentally with sort of conflicting results, has not been tested on cervids, and never documented in the wild. Jury is still very much out.
This quote from one of the Wisconsin articles I posted earlier struck me as comedy gold given the context of this thread:
Yep, the cervid farming industry is going to be our savior.
earlier in this thread somebody asked about "strains" of CWD in various cervids. This sheds light on that question.
Breakthrough in chronic wasting disease research reveals distinct deer, elk prion strains
Researchers have developed a new gene-targeted approach to study chronic wasting disease in mice, allowing opportunities for research that has not previously existed.www.sciencedaily.com
Yes, yes it does. Good thing I posted it a couple pages ago. Quit poaching my links, man! 
Stay Sharp
Well-known member
Yes, I know him, met him, talked with him. He would agree with the 2 tenants of this thread.
1. There is no way to remove or cleanse the natural world of the cwd prions.
2. There is no way to remove all the host animals (cervids) and the carriers that dont contract CWD but transmit it (fox, coyote, wolf, cross, raptors, voles, moles, etc)
When you solve both of those (stopping only one wont cut it), you stop CWD. Since we cannot do either, we cannot stop CWD. Shooting more, longer seasons, more tags, regulations, along those lines WILL NOT STOP CWD. That is the point of this thread. Yes, it slipped into full stupid mode for a moment thanks to a couple guys but when we get back to the heart of this thread it boils down to those 2 points.
