What does crowded mean when hunting out west

[NYyotekiller]

Just to mix it up a bit: I can honestly say that where I hunt at home (public land in the northeast), I see WAY fewer hunters than any of the elk, or antelope units I've hunted out west. I have had many seasons around here, when over the span of our 8 weeks of firearm deer season, I've run into exactly zero other hunters.

I'm guessing that's because deer hunting in New York's northern zone (Adirondacks) is some of the toughest deer hunting you'll find. More than likely all the hunters come down to the southern zone to hunt. You want crowded, come check out the southern zone during firearms season. Better get there early or you probably won't be able to find a parking spot. I wish I was joking about that too.

 

[Dougfirtree]

I'm guessing that's because deer hunting in New York's northern zone (Adirondacks) is some of the toughest deer hunting you'll find. More than likely all the hunters come down to the southern zone to hunt. You want crowded, come check out the southern zone during firearms season. Better get there early or you probably won't be able to find a parking spot. I wish I was joking about that too.

Well, I'm not an experienced enough hunter to make an educated declaration, but I'd say you're right. There can't be too many kinds of big game hunting more difficult than whitetails in the Adirondacks. Sure is pretty, though! And quiet!

 

[nontyp]

Just finished hunting Colorado OTC a couple weeks ago. There were probably 30 vehicles parked within 200 yds of our camp(we were not at a campground.) There are definitely lots of hunters, but you can still get away from people with some hard work and finding overlooked spots. I appreciate the opportunity Colorado provides, but i would rather have a random draw or make some of the otc units draw units. The hunting pressure is definitely intimidating and makes things much more difficult.

 

[Elk Nut]

Crowded is when you look at earth from the moon and see little orange spots. Don't hunt where those spots are.

 

[Pelican]

make some of the otc units draw units.

This has been occurring in CO for decades (Flat Tops, Bears Ears, Gunnison basin units). It doesn't solve the crowding issues as it just changes the distribution of hunters. Less people in one unit equals more people somewhere else. If you want less competition, apply for one of the ~40 units that have a limited number of archery licenses. One of the benefits of OTC tags is that if you show up in an area and there are 30 vehicle and no elk, you can GO TO ANOTHER UNIT.

 

[coleslaw]

Crowded is when you look at earth from the moon and see little orange spots. Don't hunt where those spots are.

I believe you are referring to Wisconsin or Pennsylvania on opening day of rifle deer season. lol

 

[ol_spark]

Last year 3rd season rifle elk in Colorado where I was you could not get away from the hunters. Every clearing had tents,campers, or pickups in them with multiple hunters. You couldn’t get out of site from one hunter without running into another. I haven’t seen PA deer season like that in years where I hunt. Just saying.

 

[PrairieHunter]

Crowded out west = Colorado OTC elk

Why people choose to not draw better tags in other states is beyond me but for some reason the NR's keep buying those Colorado OTC tags. Kinda like guys who hunt Nebraska mule deer when they could easily draw a much better tag in Wyoming. I think it must just be convenient as they don't have to deal with draws that way.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Crowded out west = Colorado OTC elk

Why people choose to not draw better tags in other states is beyond me but for some reason the NR's keep buying those Colorado OTC tags. Kinda like guys who hunt Nebraska mule deer when they could easily draw a much better tag in Wyoming. I think it must just be convenient as they don't have to deal with draws that way.

You the new license sales rep for Wyoming lol, I thought there were too many of us driving up I-25

For lots of people CO is closer than ID, CO has more elk than the next three states combined, and you can hunt it every year so the interest makes sense. The quality is certainly not where WY quality is but I bet more 5x5 bulls are killed in CO by NR than in all other state that allow NR hunting combined.

CO doesn’t allow spike hunting (mostly) so that means there are a ton of 2.5 year old bulls running around, age class in most units is poor though and 3.5+ year old bulls are rare. WA, OR, and UT “OTC” hunts are primarily for spikes there are exceptions, and while this creates a more natural age structure it means success rates are lower.

Also it takes ~3 years to hunt WY and a NR can’t hunt ~30% of the available elk habitat due to the wilderness restrictions.

Bottom line CPAW has to some extent designed their system for maximum number of hunters and maximum elk harvested, this is not the strategy of other states.

Just curious did you hunt CO a bunch and have negative experiences?

 

[PrairieHunter]

You the new license sales rep for Wyoming lol, I thought there were too many of us driving up I-25

For lots of people CO is closer than ID, CO has more elk than the next three states combined, and you can hunt it every year so the interest makes sense. The quality is certainly not where WY quality is but I bet more 5x5 bulls are killed in CO by NR than in all other state that allow NR hunting combined.

CO doesn’t allow spike hunting (mostly) so that means there are a ton of 2.5 year old bulls running around, age class in most units is poor though and 3.5+ year old bulls are rare. WA, OR, and UT “OTC” hunts are primarily for spikes there are exceptions, and while this creates a more natural age structure it means success rates are lower.

Also it takes ~3 years to hunt WY and a NR can’t hunt ~30% of the available elk habitat due to the wilderness restrictions.

Bottom line CPAW has to some extent designed their system for maximum number of hunters and maximum elk harvested, this is not the strategy of other states.

Just curious did you hunt CO a bunch and have negative experiences?

I don't see where Wyoming was mentioned until you said so but nice try.

Considering you once claimed transferable landowner tags helped resident hunting opportunity in Colorado I have a hard time believing you on this stuff. OTC elk hunting is not good for anyone, even the NR hunters end up at crowded trail heads trying to make something happen in the madness. Guess it bothers you that I point it out but that's only because it's true.

This is based off residents opinions, stories on this site, Randy's experiences, and my own experience. That's the downside to 1 week seasons and OTC tags. But there are a few of you who still claim it's the best resident hunting opportunity in the lower 48.

Those folks who spend 5 days hunting in CO crowded trail heads with OTC tags, much like those who hunt Nebraska, would be better off doing a bit of research, drawing better tags, and driving a bit further IMO.

As you know from reading all the experiences Colorado OTC elk hunting is not for everyone. But if you believe it's great then so be it.


Would be interesting to do a poll as to where people have been the most crowded when hunting elk.



Saw this

 

[Old man bob]

Arizona's short seasons are good for keeping quality up . Some units have to many tags tho..Last year on late Kaibab tag I saw one Hunter and there were 100 tags . This year they cut it to 75 tags. Where they screw up is 500 tags on the early hunt. I am talking 12A west. They don't take many bucks on the early hunt and most are Young. When I hunted PA. in late 60's and early 70's It was a zoo every where. Now most of the State is posted ,thats why i never went back to hunt it. And most Game lands were to thick and all Swamps............BOB!

 

[Elk Nut]

I've hunted Colorado every year since 1954 for elk, muleys, and bear. You couldn't pay me enough to hunt the OTC rifle seasons. I can't believe hunters will do it year after year. I guess they like to suffer?

I won't say how or what units I hunt but I get tags every year with no points and my freezer always has meat. You need to do research, scout, and not be afraid to hike or hunt nasty terrain. If your hunt is easy you won't be alone or have much success.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I don't see where Wyoming was mentioned until you said so but nice try.

Considering you once claimed transferable landowner tags helped resident hunting opportunity in Colorado I have a hard time believing you on this stuff. OTC elk hunting is not good for anyone, even the NR hunters end up at crowded trail heads trying to make something happen in the madness. Guess it bothers you that I point it out but that's only because it's true.

This is based off residents opinions, stories on this site, Randy's experiences, and my own experience. That's the downside to 1 week seasons and OTC tags. But there are a few of you who still claim it's the best resident hunting opportunity in the lower 48.

Those folks who spend 5 days hunting in CO crowded trail heads with OTC tags, much like those who hunt Nebraska, would be better off doing a bit of research, drawing better tags, and driving a bit further IMO.

As you know from reading all the experiences Colorado OTC elk hunting is not for everyone. But if you believe it's great then so be it.


Would be interesting to do a poll as to where people have been the most crowded when hunting elk.



Saw this

Ah, yeah sorry I was conflating your Mule deer NE v WY with elk, my apologies.

"OTC elk hunting is not good for anyone, even the NR hunters end up at crowded trail heads trying to make something happen in the madness."
I disagree with this, OTC provides a lot of opportunity, success rates are low but it does allow people a chance. For perspective more NR hunt CO than literally every other states that have NR elk tags combined. If Colorado went full limited draw and lowered quotas you would see major point creep/pressure/etc in literally every other state. That's hyperbolic that's just a fact.

I think CO's OTC is good for the elk hunting community at large because it provides an opportunity for NR hunters.

I absolutely don't think CO OTC is the best elk hunting around, but I do understand that because of the CO system the calculus makes sense for lots of people, being true OTC it gives people flexibility (you can buy a tag last minute and switch units), you can kill a mature bull on the tag lots of state the OTC tags are spike only, and you can do it every year.


In terms of success I think CO is actually decent... all things considered if you compare Colorado Harvest Rates with Wyoming harvest rates, Wyoming being a state with lauded elk hunting on the forum.
Assumptions:
CO doesn't have NR success rates so I'm going to take a WAG and say they are similar, in WY NR success rates are higher than residents, this may not be the case but I don't have the data. Also I'm assuming that there are a similar number of limited draw units in both states so that if you look at success rates in limited units versus general units the ratio of success rates between the two states will be similar, i.e. the difference in WY limited to general unit success is the same as CO limited to general.

So in WY

Residents bull success rate 13%
Non-Resident bull success rate 23%
Overall success rate (add in cows, spikes, calves) 44.5% (damn impressive)
Hunter days 17.5 per harvest

CO

Total bull success rate 10%
Overall Success rate 19%
Hunter days 5 per harvest

I can't help but feel like these stats kind go in CO's favor... I mean residents in WY are only doing marginally better than CO residents in harvesting bulls... and it's taking them 3.5x as many days to get a bull. Given the fact that in WY you have a month of archery, then a month of rifle, and in CO you have just archery season or just a 10 day rifle season (5 days in 1st and 4th season) and the success rate is still 19% kinda speaks volumes for how many elk has running around. (Probably lots of WY are spending 17 days looking for a booner bull and then shooting a cow to fill the freezer in that .5 five and Colorado R are just shooting the first legal bull they see... so yeah maybe not apples to apples)

To the crowded argument, CO is slightly bigger in area than WY, but it has 3 times the elk hunters + a lot more deer hunters + I dk 10x the number of non-consumptive users, so absolutely you are 100% correct it is likely one of the most crowded if not the most crowded state to hunt elk in.

But, as I pointed out there is a good reason to hunt CO.

Anecdotally, if you look at my previous post in the thread, I've actually felt more crowded in MT than CO... but that's anecdotal I've only hunted 4-5 units in MT and 5 units in CO. That being said all 4 of the hunt talkers that I talked to this year about hunting OTC in CO tagged out with 5pt bulls, but they all worked very hard to kill and pack out those bulls.

Per you, BuzzH, and a few others I started buying some WY points and plan on heading up when I draw to hunt the general season and see what the fuss is all about.

Perhaps when I come up I can buy you a beer, and hear about some of your biomass work.

 

[ol_spark]

I had 7 pts in Wyoming this year didn’t get drawn there either.

 

[ol_spark]

I was just answering the questions from the perspective of someone that knows what crowded hunting means. Growing up and hunting deer in Pa as an example. Many years ago while turkey hunting in Virginia, I thought my buddy and I were the only ones hunting the birds we heard prior to opening day. As I climbed the ridge to get in position to call on opening day, I met another guy who came up the back side of ridge. He was from Pa. also. Drove in that morning, just happened to pick that ridge to climb up. No one got the bird that morning but I made a new friend and let him have his hunt because I knew of other birds in the area. Just because you don’t see them don’t mean others aren’t in the area but when you see them, I believe there’s a lot more than you think hunting. I saw a lot of hunters in 3rd OTC Colorado elk. Just saying.

 

[Mallardsx2]

I grew up in PA and know what crowded hunting is. Colorado OTC Archery is getting to be about that bad. Its pretty bad. I go deep and routinely see a lot of people in different areas.

 

[antlerradar]

In the early 90's I was going to school in Bozeman. The elk were coming out of the park in mass so I headed down to Gardiner early in the morning Saturday. I was plenty early but I was passed by at least half dozen likely hunters driving south through Paradise Valley. There was no traffic headed north. I knew that I wanted nothing to do with anything close to the park so I pulled in to the bottom of Trail Creek a good hour and a half before shooting light. There was plenty of other people there, Most were still sleeping. I grabbed my stuff and started up the mountain. It was just getting light when I heard a lone rifle shot fallowed by two more to the south. I thought to myself "must be getting close to shooting light". I didn't even have time to look at my watch when what is best described as a rolling thunder rumbled out of the south. Could have easily been 100 rife shots in the next few minutes. I was real glad I had stayed away form the park line. It didn't get any more crowded than the park line when the elk were moving..

 

[ol_spark]

Mallardsx2 the guy that’s reads our water meter just got back from Colorado archery and said that exact same thing.

 

[ChrisAU]

All this talk about going in deep...our strategy hasn't been go deep, it's been go steep. Granted, last year was our first time...we weren't very deep, but we were in super steep...saw 2 pairs of hunters the entire time, one pair we only saw because they were packing out a bull and wanted to camp with us as it was the only flat spot around. The other pair was camped near us, but we never saw them hunting, just when they passed through our camp before first light a couple times.

 

[thusby]

75% of the deer I kill in Wisconsin are fleeing another hunter. It took my 7-8 years to see a deer standing still while hunting.