What can we learn from Cuba?

[Hammsolo]

I am noticing a trend about “invaders” and such. Many are concerned about our parks and public land being “over ran.”

I watched a documentary on Cuba’s Coral Reefs. They have the most pristine coral reefs in the world. The divers were awe struck. It seemed like another planet.

Why? Management and passion. They put the reefs before people. They restrict access.

What should we do?

Cuba’s Coral Reefs

 

[SAJ-99]

Put the health of the resource about the pleasure of the people. We did that before. Can we agree to do it again? Restricting access seems inevitable and is already occurring.

 

[Irrelevant]

But then we have fewer advocates, no? People only care about what they know, what they have a connection to. Sure our leaders could restrict access, but at a certain point, because we have so much turn-over of "leaders" we'll get a group that doesn't care, reverses the decisions to restrict. Maybe we get to a position where there are no longer enough leaders that care, enough that actually have a connection.

Our NPs are sacrificial lands. They are areas where the masses can go to develop some connection. I won't go there, but I hope they do.

 

[LuketheDog]

They put the reefs before people.

Fidel put everything before his people. I have friends who have visited there. They said the fishing was great, but motoring past the huts of starving fishermen to get to the fish the locals weren't allowed to catch put a damper on the whole trip.

 

[Hammsolo]

But then we have fewer advocates, no? People only care about what they know, what they have a connection to. Sure our leaders could restrict access, but at a certain point, because we have so much turn-over of "leaders" we'll get a group that doesn't care, reverses the decisions to restrict. Maybe we get to a position where there are no longer enough leaders that care, enough that actually have a connection.

Our NPs are sacrificial lands. They are areas where the masses can go to develop some connection. I won't go there, but I hope they do.

I actually agree. I believe there needs to be a balance based upon expert opinions. Extremes are always dangerous. Fully open or fully closed has its consequences. I tried to word it without takin a stance. The reef is pristine due to lack of access. That is a fact. I hope it doesn’t just flip to a resource to be reeped.

 

[Hammsolo]

Fidel put everything before his people. I have friends who have visited there. They said the fishing was great, but motoring past the huts of starving fishermen to get to the fish the locals weren't allowed to catch put a damper on the whole trip.

It is true that Fidel made many decisions I don’t agree with. I am not a fanboy of Fidel. I was attempting to state facts I have found. I guess I should say he was fanatical about conservation of these reefs. He put them before his people. I didn’t state that I agreed. I asked, “What should we do?”

 

[SAJ-99]

But then we have fewer advocates, no? People only care about what they know, what they have a connection to. Sure our leaders could restrict access, but at a certain point, because we have so much turn-over of "leaders" we'll get a group that doesn't care, reverses the decisions to restrict. Maybe we get to a position where there are no longer enough leaders that care, enough that actually have a connection.

Our NPs are sacrificial lands. They are areas where the masses can go to develop some connection. I won't go there, but I hope they do.

Maybe. I'm sure there are a lot of people who want to preserve Yellowstone that have never been there. The question is whether a place can still be pristine if it is inundated with visitors. Our NPs are showing that is a tough thing to accomplish. The majority don't treat the resource like they should. But trying to squeeze every dollar out of them in order to spend those dollars somewhere else, or cut taxes, or whatever is a fool's folly.

Just make a virtual tour of Yellowstone and let people put on VR headsets to enjoy the experience. (slight sarcasm). Limiting entry and asking people to make an appointment for certain dates and then confirm they are going to show up seems reasonable. Maybe make it ineligible to sign up again for 3 yrs. This just highlights the problem- there are more people in the world that want to enjoy something than it can handle.

 

[stealthy_bowman]

I have a hard time looking at anything from Cuba as something that could be emulated. I’ve been there and it was pretty appalling to see the way people live under the communist regime. I’ll dig up some pics and post later…

edit: some pics added

 

[406dn]

We have accepted access restrictions to resources for many years. Hunters should know this better than most. The demand/desire to hunt many big game animals far exceeds the supply. Who would not like to hunt wild sheep?

The Smith River in Montana has floating restrictions that have been in place for many years.

We have wrestled over land use and will forever do so. For every ski hill developer who wants to build a ski resort, there are others who see that as a blight. One group wants lumber cut, another does not. And so on and so on.

Hunters are one of many groups that make use of public lands. We are not the major user group, most of the time. Hunters can use every political ally they can find.

Regarding Castro, it proves that a person can be wrong nearly every time and still do something right, maybe for the wrong reasons...or not. He's gone thankfully, and with good fortune...maybe his regime will join him.

 

[SAJ-99]

I have a hard time looking at anything from Cuba as something that could be emulated. I’ve been there and it was pretty appalling to see the way people live under the communist regime. I’ll dig up some pics and post later…

Don't mean to be blunt or rude, but the economic policies of Castro's Cuba are not the point of this thread. We all agree on the consequences of those. The question is can we preserve something and enjoy it with loving it to death.

 

[mtmuley]

.The question is can we preserve something and enjoy it with loving it to death.

I don't think so. Many Montana rivers are "loved to death" already. NP's are a zoo. Trailheads in the Root that used to be abandoned are packed. So, how do you preserve it? Restricted access right? Restrict all of it, even hunting. mtmuley

 

[Dougfirtree]

But then we have fewer advocates, no? People only care about what they know, what they have a connection to. Sure our leaders could restrict access, but at a certain point, because we have so much turn-over of "leaders" we'll get a group that doesn't care, reverses the decisions to restrict. Maybe we get to a position where there are no longer enough leaders that care, enough that actually have a connection.

Our NPs are sacrificial lands. They are areas where the masses can go to develop some connection. I won't go there, but I hope they do.

This might be one of the few benefits of a dictatorship..? You only need a handful of people to care about the resource!

 

[noharleyyet]

Don't mean to be blunt or rude, but the economic policies of Castro's Cuba are not the point of this thread. We all agree on the consequences of those. The question is can we preserve something and enjoy it with loving it to death.

So, ‘not a damn thing’ is off limits?

 

[Hammsolo]

I don't think so. Many Montana rivers are "loved to death" already. NP's are a zoo. Trailheads in the Root that used to be abandoned are packed. So, how do you preserve it? Restricted access right? Restrict all of it, even hunting. mtmuley

Great points. I would rather have restricted access to an amazing experience, than open access to an overused now enjoyable system. Quality > Quantity

 

[mtmuley]

Great points. I would rather have restricted access to an amazing experience, than open access to an overused now enjoyable system. Quality > Quantity

So that may be where we are. Sucks. mtmuley

 

[Hammsolo]

It does suck. However, the only option that we have is to make the most of it. Personally, I would rather pay twice as much, or go half as much for a better experience.

What would we be willing to support? Raffle trips to National Parks? Thumb wrestling at the gate for entry? No, too much skill. Just roll a di, and even gets you in! Odd, turn around… What about a true test between families of the “my Dad is tougher than your Dad theory?” We could have an octagon at the gate! There could be entry fees and all proceeds go to conservation!

 

[mtmuley]

I'm taking my experience away from the crowds. My kids have seen the parks. No need to go back. mtmuley

 

[406dn]

It will come to pass some day where there are limits on usage for many public lands, I think. It won't happen in my lifetime, but maybe my grandchildren's lifetimes.

I took a niece horseback riding in YNP earlier this month. There were crazy crowds on the roads. However, when we left the trailheads and got maybe a mile from it, we never saw a soul. The sense of solitude was equal, no make that greater to the various wilderness areas I poke around in.

I more than occasionally reflect and thank Teddy Roosevelt for having the foresight that he did.

 

[Rainer]

Well Cuba also doesn't have corporations pumping pollutants into the water

 

[stealthy_bowman]

Don't mean to be blunt or rude, but the economic policies of Castro's Cuba are not the point of this thread. We all agree on the consequences of those. The question is can we preserve something and enjoy it with loving it to death.

Honestly, I just don’t buy the video. When I was there in 2018, the slick of filth in the water all around the Cuban coast was unlike anything I have ever seen. Utterly disgusting is how I would sum it up. It’s as if their sewage plants just pump the effluent raw around the coast, literally…