MTNTOUGH - Use promo code RANDY for 30 days free

Welfare ranchers don`t like Wyoming`s Wolf Plan

280

New member
Joined
Jul 12, 2001
Messages
770
Location
montana
Ranchers don`t like Wyoming`s Wolf Plan

JACKSON, Wyo. - The Wyoming Stock Growers Association says the federal government's proposal to designate a permanent area in northwestern Wyoming where the state could manage wolves as trophy game animals is unacceptable.

Jim Magagna, executive vice president of the association, said that designating the wolves as protected game animals, as opposed to predators that could be shot on sight, in the area from Cody to Meeteetse is a "deal breaker."


The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service recently proposed establishing a permanent area for the trophy management area for wolves in northwestern Wyoming in a compromise intended to end the standoff with the state over wolf management. The dispute between Wyoming and federal officials has prevented removing wolves from Endangered Species Act protections in Wyoming, Montana and Idaho.

Gov. Dave Freudenthal met last week with federal officials. He said after the meeting that the federal proposal has marked "great progress from where we were," but said the state would continue pressing its lawsuit over wolf management.

Wyoming this fall sued the federal government for rejecting its wolf management plan. Rather than setting aside a permanent area in which wolves would be managed as trophy animals, the state's plan calls for allowing the state game department to allow hunting as the state deems necessary to control the wolf population.

Magagna said the federal proposal would have a major impact on ranchers.

"It singles out that group of landowners who are going to bear the burden of wolves," Magagna said, adding that the same group already bears the burden of grizzly bears.

The boundary of the federal agency's proposed permanent wolf area would extend from Cody south to Meeteetse, around the western boundary of the Wind River Reservation down to Pinedale, west to the Alpine area and then back north to Yellowstone National Park.

Magagna said that the proposed area would include about 10,000 cattle and 4,000 sheep that graze on public land. He said he expects the state will consult his group when the federal government gives the state a formal proposal and the state has to draft a formal response.

Ed Bangs, wolf recovery coordinator with the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service in Helena, Mont., said recently that the federal proposal would result in a stable population of about 130 wolves in Yellowstone National Park and about 50 to 100 wolves outside the park. Officials say there are now about 300 wolves in the state.

Mitch King, regional director for the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service in Denver, said his agency's proposal for a permanent area would make sure that wolves don't become endangered in Wyoming.

"Experts have said the line that we now have laid out is sufficient to support that minimum number of wolves," King said. Outside the area, he said there's no natural prey for wolves and said that they would start getting in trouble with livestock.

Franz Camenzind, executive director of the Jackson Hole Conservation Alliance, said he believes his group and others that support wolves in Wyoming should have been involved in early discussions about the federal proposal.

The alliance and other groups intervened on behalf of the Fish and Wildlife Service in the state's wolf-management lawsuit. Camenzind said his group has concerns about the recent federal proposal.

"I think this is nearly as bad as the current state management plan the state is pushing for," Camenzind said. "I don't see a lot of difference, and I don't see much improvement."

Camenzind said he's concerned that the federal proposal wouldn't offer much protection to wolves outside the national parks. He said he would prefer to wolves managed as trophy game, "and when there is a bona fide problem, go in and deal with that problem," he said.

Rep. Pat Childers, R-Cody, said there will be public meetings as any wolf plan is developed.

"The public needs to be assured they will be heard before the state makes any decisions or counter offers, if they even do that," Childers said. "We are not by any means committed to anything."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Looks like the obstructionists are at it again in Wyoming...the Welfare Ranchers.

Heres a real shock...they want total control of federal lands:

"Magagna said that the proposed area would include about 10,000 cattle and 4,000 sheep that graze on public land. "

I got a suggestion to the welfare ranchers grazing public land...if its too risky, give up the lease.
 
Let me get this straight, the Welfare Ranchers are going to be preventing us from ever getting a hunting season on Wolves? Un-flippin' believable....
 
So why did you vote for Gov. Dave Buzz? He's doing a good job negotiating for the people of Wyoming and all you can do is whine. Whine about oil and gas drilling. Whine about ranchers. Whine about Wyoming holding up wolf hunting. From the way you guy's whine, you would think there was nothing left to hunt in Wyoming.
 
if you don't like oil and gas or ranchers you sure live in the wrong state.
go home and take the Jackson tree huggers with you.
if you don't have farmers and ranchers oil and gas what are you going to eat, drive, and heat your house with.
buzz would prefer we were totally dependent on middle east oil and gas and third world food. Move to new york city I'm sure they import everything they eat, heat, and drive from elsewhere.
yes Jose if that is what it takes to get a acceptable plan.
you seem to think we care if you get to shoot a wolf. being able to have out of state hunters hunting them is not what we are concerned with.
 
middleton,

I'm not an out-of-state hunter...I want to hunt wolves in Wyoming. I want them to be classified as big-game animals in the entire State. No good reason not to classify them as such. The state would still have the ability to manage the big-game any way they see fit...including letting welfare ranchers shoot them if they're livestock are being killed by wolves.

As to the rest of your post...total BS.

Welfare ranchers do more to hurt the cattle industry than any tree-hugger ever will. For starters the 95% of livestock producers that have no Federal leases have to compete with subsidized public land grazers. Typically, private land is 10-12 times more to lease per AUM than Federal lands. How is that free-enterprise when one group of cry-baby landowners get subsidized grazing? How are private land producers to compete in a market where goverment lands are leased to a select few at 1/10th the value of leases?

As to the oil and gas development...another lame arguement. It makes no sense to use domestic oil FIRST when you can buy foreign oil for the same price. Is the price of oil coming out of Alaska, Texas, Wyoming, etc. cheaper per barrel than the same stuff we're buying from the middle east? If it is, I sure as hell havent seen a DECREASE in price even though the West is being riddled with oil and gas development. Who cares if we're dependent on foreign oil...we should be when we invest nearly 3000 American lives in Iraq along with 22,000 wounded and amounts of money that are so large its difficult to comprehend. How many freaking barrels of oil do we have to get to recoup a loss of a half trillion dollars? Better yet...how much foreign oil could we buy with half a trillion dollars?

We need to be independent of foreign oil...what a joke...thats about as realistic as you finding a clue. Cant and wont happen for many reasons.

As a consumer and a U.S. Citizen I have every right to demand accountability of welfare ranchers, corruption, and how and where my energy is produced. And I excercise that right...as we all should.

Talk about sitting back and letting the government run you over...you dont even stand up enough to give a shit how much mule deer, elk, antelope, sheep, sage grouse, etc. etc. etc. habitat is destroyed so you can pay 2 cents less a month on your power bill. You dont even have enough spine to demand accountability of YOUR public lands when it comes to cattle over-grazing it...you're a real stand-up guy. You have the spine of a jellyfish.

Unbelievable.
 
look at the jobs oil and gas are producing. its a better wage and better work than all your whining on the Internet pays. oil and gas is good for wyoming wolves are not. elk and deer hunting is good for wyoming,10 wolf tags a year is not. ranching and selling beef for a profit is good, when the price of beef go's threw the roof it is not.
i lease private land and not state or federal land but you don't hear me whining its unfair. if i had a chance I'd like to lease all the old homestake land in the black hills. i don't have that many cows but if i had more land i would get more.
if you don't like that go back to Montana we are tired of your mentality.
I'll start looking for federal and state land to lease just because it pi$$e$ you off.
if you are so smart, What is your yearly income? 35 to 40 i bet, get a oilfield job and increase your net worth its the american way. work for a living and stop belly aching.
i got more spine than you I'll take your pu$$y belly aching a$$ any day you want.
lets close down oil and gas, and all mining,timber sales and import everything we eat, drink, drive, live in, public schools, government jobs and see how long this country stays solvent. with out the jobs and taxes the industry's and state leases supply we will all go broke
 
Middleton,

You really are clueless.

You think that destroying the West to create a few "good jobs" is a good idea? Really?

I cant believe anyone would be that dumb. How long do you suppose all these "good jobs" are going to last? Do you think the high-school kids that are just starting out will be able to work long enough to retire from the oil field work? Wont happen...and thats a fact. When the drilling dries up...they'll be competing with another 200 applicants for that $6/hour job asking if they want that super-sized. Thats about all the skills they'll have and about all the job opportunities that will be left for high-school graduates. In particular if they want to continue to live in Wyoming.

Short term gain for long term losses...not worth it to Wyoming.

RESPONSIBLE oil and gas development done at a pace that can be monitored and controlled...good for Wyoming long-term and maybe a few of those high-school graduates MAY get to retire from the oil work.

If you had one half a firing brain cell left...you'd realize that...but I didnt expect you to understand something so intuitively obvioius.

Wolves are good for Wyoming, lots of tourism into Yellowstone, lots of jobs for biologists, soon...good numbers of permits sold to Resident and Non-Resident hunters.

As to the unfairness of public lands welfare ranchers...again...I'm not shocked that you arent smart enough to realize you're being ripped off by your fellow ranchers. I think its great your tax dollars are being spent to subsidize welfare ranchers...while they make more for their cattle than you do through paying 1/10th the price you do for your grazing rights. Thats funny...real funny.

While you're looking for a federal or state lease...maybe you can also try to find that clue you seem to be missing.

Good luck on trying to pry those cheap grazing rights out of any hands of the welfare ranchers who already have those leases.
 
yippee we will hire 5 biologist, pay more on gas taxes to up keep the roads and increase the lodging tax. that will keep the economy going.
the next good job opportunity will be the motel biz. what then?
maybe wolf babysitting.
as long as i make money from my cattle why would i even worry about someone else?
why would it bother you who the lions share of the public leases are held buy. the leases will be held by someone. maybe some rich tree huggers could lease them for you. call peta
maybe they have a extra 100 mil just buy them up. then pay for them without a income from it.
can Yellowstone handle any more? without building more access and lodging within the park
 
cmiddleton said:
as long as i make money from my cattle why would i even worry about someone else?

Such an awesome statement I had to preserve it.:rolleyes:

NeMont, this is a good example of those that give subsidized grazing a bad name.
 
Middleton,

Again...find a clue.

"Rich tree-huggers" cant lease federal or state lands in Wyoming unless they graze it...even if the "Rich tree-huggers" offer the state or Federal Government substantially more money for the lease.

Its better for the BLM and FS to subsidize welfare ranchers to nuke 70% of my public lands than to lease it to someone else who wont graze it and actually improve the health of the land...as well as pay MORE for the rights not to graze it.

So, once again you're talking out of your uneducated, uninformed, ignorant ass.
 
Oak said:
Such an awesome statement I had to preserve it.:rolleyes:

NeMont, this is a good example of those that give subsidized grazing a bad name.

Oak,

I made a New Years resolution to not ever again discuss public lands grazing on this board. Happy New Year.


Nemont
 
Nemont said:
Oak,

I made a New Years resolution to not ever again discuss public lands grazing on this board. Happy New Year.


Nemont
You live a virtuous life if that is the only vice you are giving up.....;)

Happy New year......:D
 
JoseCuervo said:
You live a virtuous life if that is the only vice you are giving up.....;)

Happy New year......:D

It is just one of many in a rather unvirtous life. Good thing I have my wife to attempt to keep me on the straight and narrow.

Nemont
 
Nemont said:
Oak,

I made a New Years resolution to not ever again discuss public lands grazing on this board. Happy New Year.


Nemont

That's a shame, as I think you've provided good information to support your views on the issue in the past, and have made people (at least me) think about it a little more. I respect your decision, though.
 
I can understand Nemont's reluctance to discuss grazing when he finds out he's on the same side as cmiddleton!:rolleyes: I'd give up too! Unfortunately, there are a lot more cmiddletons than Nemonts.

Nemont, I'll miss your comments as we discuss grazing issues.:)
 
and a biologist is so smart in his own mind. i run a multi million dollar company and a ranch. you work on government subsidies and are a drain on the economy.
i see you are from Laramie do you work at uw? I wired the animal science buildings. and put in the ups system for the computers. put in the signals on grand ave, did the weigh in motion at the port of entree and the street lights.
the lights on the summit, was working there when Mathew got tied to the post. made more money on any one of those projects than you will ever make being a biologist.
how long did you go to school? we do 4 yrs of school then have to work as a journeyman for 8 yrs to take a masters. are you a master or a bachelors?
if it wasn't for the government who would you work for? what kind of income are you looking for? have you ever made a million bucks? also have you ever lost a million? i have both when you are a contractor its just like being a gambler. some jobs win big some lose big just gotta keep going so hopefully the winners are more than the losers. every thing get sunk back into the company to build up your bonding power.
i have many skills that you don't and I'm winning the race to a better life.
who cares about hunting wolves life is about not losing your a$$. if wolves inter-fear with cattle operations who gave you the right to judge the people who it will effect. they are U.S. citizens just like you and their livelihood hangs on the choices wyoming makes. ranchers were here in wyoming a long time before you moved here from Montana
 
Middleton,

No biologist gets into the field to make a lot of money. We pursue it because it is something we truly love to do. For me personally I've gotten so much out of my life by being in the outdoors that pursuing a biology degree was my way of being able to hopefully give something back to something that has given so much to me. If you don't think Buzz possesses skills that you don't then you truly are delusional. I mean just the ability to read and write is one skill he's got way more of than you.
 
Caribou Gear

Forum statistics

Threads
113,413
Messages
2,020,320
Members
36,162
Latest member
KSR
Back
Top