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VikingsGuy said:
At some point the govt has to have the funds to run the “common good” activities our democratic process supports. I figure 50-50 is a fair balance of a dead person’s interest in charity.


My view of taxes is broad and includes sales taxes, property taxes (incl, that paid indirectly by renters), payroll withholding for Soc/Med and if you do that, the poorest 25% does pay a reasonable share compared to the other quartiles. With a broad brush, about the only folks that avoid skin in the game are the uber rich (>$50m) who ”hide” wealth as unrealized gains and live lavish lifestyles using “borrowed money” instead of generating income. I would guess 95% if Americans have skin in the game relatively connected to their income/wealth. There is probably a bottom 5% who pays almost none and a top 0.01% that does the same. Our focus on fed income tax skews perceptions of tax base.
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I don’t think the broad brush works in this instance. Sales tax is for the state, everyone pays it and it’s proportional to what you buy so people who spend more pay more. Property tax is local and helps fund those governments. The federal is where we need the participation because that’s where most of these “necessary“ programs are funded. When you see that hitting your check every week and don’t expect a refund greater than what you have paid in it changes your view.

Also, if most that money was being directed to functional charities maybe we can get the government out of some of those businesses

100% on the borrowing, something needs to be done to correct it
 
TN2shot07 said:
I don’t think the broad brush works in this instance. Sales tax is for the state, everyone pays it and it’s proportional to what you buy so people who spend more pay more. Property tax is local and helps fund those governments. The federal is where we need the participation because that’s where most of these “necessary“ programs are funded. When you see that hitting your check every week and don’t expect a refund greater than what you have paid in it changes your view.

Also, if most that money was being directed to functional charities maybe we can get the government out of some of those businesses

100% on the borrowing, something needs to be done to correct it
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The part of the story that Mitt R didn’t mention:

53E3B1B1-0808-4E4A-BC54-B5C74F9A37E6.jpeg


And it is far more skewed to the left in states without income taxes.
 
TN2shot07 said:
I don’t think the broad brush works in this instance. Sales tax is for the state, everyone pays it and it’s proportional to what you buy so people who spend more pay more. Property tax is local and helps fund those governments. The federal . . .
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As one who thinks our tax system is off the rails and insatiable (on this I would guess we agree), I think allowing a dozen different governmental agencies (local schools, county, regional authority, transit authority, state general fund, Fed general fund, Federal Soc/Med etc.) use a dozen different types of taxes (sales, sin taxes, property taxes, income taxes, payroll taxes, etc etc,) is a big part of taxing us to death. Anything resembling an efficient, fair and effective tax system needs to start shrinking the hundred different ways our citizens are taxed.

And don’t even get me started on how excessive govt spending that drives up inflation is a huge hidden tax on existing savings and wealth. For most Americans, I would guess the last 2 years of inflation have eroded far more income/savings/wealth than the Trump tax cuts handed out/cut. Congress didn’t need to raise taxes, it just spent the money anyway and thereby reduced the spending power of our money even more than if they had just taxed us.
 
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VikingsGuy said:
The part of the story that Mitt R didn’t mention:

View attachment 268577


And it is far more skewed to the left in states without income taxes.
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And what percentage of the total tax burden is paid for by the top 20%? At what point are people accountable for their own impacts to society? Would a flat tax be better?

Our state is finally coming to terms that we're F'd (It's only taken 8 years) and need some sort of tax. They're going round and round on income vs sales, rates, flat tax etc. All while being able to pay out a Permanent Fund Dividend... So you pay $4000+ in taxes to get $2000 back...

A very similar argument is being used but for income (our PFD) vs taxes. They want the "rich" to pay for vast majority of all the government, but also pay them cash money. Fun times ahead.

Alaska isn't sustainable without resource development. As we ween off oil, tourism and the pennies that fishing brings to the state isn't going to save us. Most all fishing money goes to the L48, very little of it remains in AK. Taxes on commercial fishing barely pays to manage the program.
 
Bambistew said:
And what percentage of the total tax burden is paid for by the top 20%? At what point are people accountable for their own impacts to society? Would a flat tax be better?
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I don't have a handy all-in number, but one can be pieced together with a little google-foo. The real question for me is the overall taxes paid by income/wealth brackets. Big picture, I care about overall tax burden and its effect on human welfare, education, the incentive to work, public safety, minimizing a "permanent landed aristocracy", economic efficiency, simplicity, enforceability, and "fairness". I am not sure a flat tax checks enough boxes to have my support - I do think a graduated tax better serves some of my concerns. Part of my lack of enthusiasm for flat tax is that half our tax form is determining if it is income or not. The second half roles out the various deductions. I see no way we can actually agree on what is income and no way we drop things like mortgage interest deductions - so the theory of a "post card" tax filing is fantasy.

I do wish we had fewer layers of taxes - it is too easy for local, state and fed levels covering property, income, sales, capital gains, death, etc to keep moving the ball so it is hard to keep taxes under control. A classic example is for a state to eliminate/reduce local district property taxes for education and raise statewide income taxes to pay for it instead (seemingly a net even move) -- then a few years later the school districts are initiating levees again but of course the income taxes stay in place.
 
wllm said:
@VikingsGuy and @SAJ-99 just saw a company that my wife has a 3.125% 10 year without payments student loan is offering a 4.8% APY savings account…

… that can’t be good
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Banks are paying up to get customers to keep their money at the bank. You can see the CD rates i posted in the other thread at nearing 5% for 5 and 10yr CDs. It has to be matched up with riskier loan, like auto. Net interest margin is compressing for these banks. Profits will decline. Should cut off loans but 🤷‍♂️.

It seems the future model of banking is an intermediary. They issue loans (education, auto, mortgages) and then resell the loans to be packaged into securities for large investors. I guess the 90’s saw that move, but even more now. Banks can’t hold 10yr loan no matter how credit worthy of a potential run on the bank is a Twitter thread away.
 
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