WARNING: Student Load Forgiveness is Very Unlikely to Pay for Your Next Elk Tag

One issue is that we don't apply educated in a little broader sense.







I'd like to see any individual pull 80,000 gross through a major urban area in daylight hours then get back to me on whether that takes an education or not. Guys like @DouglasR , @Stocker , etc are educated, believe me....
 
woods89 said:
One issue is that we don't apply educated in a little broader sense.







I'd like to see any individual pull 80,000 gross through a major urban area in daylight hours then get back to me on whether that takes an education or not. Guys like @DouglasR , @Stocker , etc are educated, believe me....
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I try not to confuse educated, skilled, or valuable. Each is different in its own right.
 
longbow98 said:
And, @DouglasR , as Bill C said, I feel your pain. I was just sitting here thinking whether or not my granddaughter needs a new tennis racquet for the summer. She'll be 11. I actually think she does as she's a Viking, 11 and over 5 feet tall.

When I was her age, I made my own from a section of bamboo, heavy gauge wire for the frame and smaller gauge for the face (not unlike the Wilson T-2000, should have gotten a patent).

$6 fly rod, $0.99 reel, $1 line. Bucking bales at 2 cents per.

Buying shotguns shells individually (I need 2 #2s in case I see a goose). You could do that then, at least where I grew up.

So yes, I can see where many might be appalled and somewhat taken aghast by the sums we are tossing about.

But, having come up hard, I don't regret making it easier for my daughter.

For us it worked out; for others, it obv did not. Too much money ruins kids, but we didn't give her a Corvette (Corolla), we gave her a good education. And one summer she worked at Osco's which was probably the best thing she ever did. And did Habitat for Humanity later.
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So you are ok with Chinese kids making your granddaughter’s tennis racket. Welcome to the club!
 
SAJ-99 said:
So you are ok with Chinese kids making your granddaughter’s tennis racket. Welcome to the club!
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No, not OK with that. I actually strive to buy American; NB 990's for running shoes, truck built in Texas, bullets built in Montana, rifles built in Montana, fly rods built in MT and WA, reels built in CO, drift boat built in Colorado. Active speakers built in Denmark. Knives built in MT and Florida. Tents built in CA. And, last I heard, SOTAR rafts were made in USA.

Not going to stop playing tennis though. The impetus is to vote for folks who value American jobs as opposed to Chinese ones. And here's looking at you, Chamber of Commerce, most Republicans, and all Democrats.

Go Bull Moose.

Don't really see what that has to do with this discussion.

I think Enos Cantor Freedom addressed this.
 
woods89 said:
One issue is that we don't apply educated in a little broader sense.







I'd like to see any individual pull 80,000 gross through a major urban area in daylight hours then get back to me on whether that takes an education or not. Guys like @DouglasR , @Stocker , etc are educated, believe me....
Click to expand...
Have you ever been to a truck stop?
There’s actually a lot of BBBW that can do it.
I just hope I never have to get a real job because so many of them seem like they suck ass.
You wouldn’t believe the hours my sisters work as an icu nurse and accountant.
Seems like a horrible deal.
And just to be clear, if I ever have kids...
1. They’re going straight to college out of high school.
No other option will ever be discussed in the house.
2. Yeah, I’m gonna try to pay for it.
But only because it’s the fastest track to the most money for the least amount of work, not any of that moral code bs.
 
DouglasR said:
Have you ever been to a truck stop?
There’s actually a lot of BBBW that can do it.
I just hope I never have to get a real job because so many of them seem like they suck ass.
You wouldn’t believe the hours my sisters work as an icu nurse and accountant.
Seems like a horrible deal.
And just to be clear, if I ever have kids...
1. They’re going straight to college out of high school.
No other option will ever be discussed in the house.
2. Yeah, I’m gonna try to pay for it.
But only because it’s the fastest track to the most money for the least amount of work, not any of that moral code bs.
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I've been in plenty of truck stops, and my dad drove OTR pulling both a live floor and step deck for quite a few years.

There are a lot of people with varying skills that are doing it. They aren't doing it very well, however, as the back of any wrecker service shows.

You can't make a competent driver in 6 weeks of driving school.
 
longbow98 said:
No, not OK with that. I actually strive to buy American; NB 990's for running shoes, truck built in Texas, bullets built in Montana, rifles built in Montana, fly rods built in MT and WA, reels built in CO, drift boat built in Colorado. Active speakers built in Denmark. Knives built in MT and Florida. Tents built in CA. And, last I heard, SOTAR rafts were made in USA.

Not going to stop playing tennis though. The impetus is to vote for folks who value American jobs as opposed to Chinese ones. And here's looking at you, Chamber of Commerce, most Republicans, and all Democrats.

Go Bull Moose.

Don't really see what that has to do with this discussion.

I think Enos Cantor Freedom addressed this.
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I think you may have lost your sense of humor the same time you stopped watching SNL.
 
D_Walt said:
Maybe that’s our whole damn problem…
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Nope. You voted for 'em. Or for the people that put'em there.

Interesting to hear the debates about schools and all the stereotypes. Most of them are anything but accurate.

After a lifetime in academics and watching students pass through, I am pretty sure that the right kind of person can succeed in almost anything in life with a degree from almost any public university. That is not to say all people can. Those that kick down doors and make things happen for themselves will find a way to success, because the nuts and bolts of what they need and the opportunities to learn and get involved is always there. But it takes an agressive, determined person to do it. Not all students are built that way. This is no surprise, of course, but few students have parents that do not believe their son or daughter is one of those A-list door busters.

Lots of students - from any social or economic group - would probably be better off somewhere else other than college, but figuring out who those students are is darn tricky. Hindsight, is always 20-20, of course. It is sad seeing a student that would be much better off in the trades, for instance, struggling through college miserably. The classroom statistics may not be horrible for that student, but he or she would rather be elsewhere and doing other things. I wish it were easy to head them off in that direction before the investiture in academics.

I don't know that the true percentage is, I'll pick 50% arbitrarily, of what students learn while in school does not happen in the classroom and is not necessarily tangible facts or whatever that can be counted on ones' fingers. In grad school, that percentage gets a lot closer to 95% or higher. If at school has a good environment, and the student has a personality for that environment, then success is basically guarantied.

I don't underestimate Harvard grads, but there are lots of folks that proven they have the chops without ivy leaves being attached.
 
BrentD said:
Nope. You voted for 'em. Or for the people that put'em there.

Interesting to hear the debates about schools and all the stereotypes. Most of them are anything but accurate.

After a lifetime in academics and watching students pass through, I am pretty sure that the right kind of person can succeed in almost anything in life with a degree from almost any public university. That is not to say all people can. Those that kick down doors and make things happen for themselves will find a way to success, because the nuts and bolts of what they need and the opportunities to learn and get involved is always there. But it takes an agressive, determined person to do it. Not all students are built that way. This is no surprise, of course, but few students have parents that do not believe their son or daughter is one of those A-list door busters.

Lots of students - from any social or economic group - would probably be better off somewhere else other than college, but figuring out who those students are is darn tricky. Hindsight, is always 20-20, of course. It is sad seeing a student that would be much better off in the trades, for instance, struggling through college miserably. The classroom statistics may not be horrible for that student, but he or she would rather be elsewhere and doing other things. I wish it were easy to head them off in that direction before the investiture in academics.

I don't know that the true percentage is, I'll pick 50% arbitrarily, of what students learn while in school does not happen in the classroom and is not necessarily tangible facts or whatever that can be counted on ones' fingers. In grad school, that percentage gets a lot closer to 95% or higher. If at school has a good environment, and the student has a personality for that environment, then success is basically guarantied.

I don't underestimate Harvard grads, but there are lots of folks that proven they have the chops without ivy leaves being attached.
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My comment was more that our nation is governed almost entirely by an incestuous group of nepotistic a-holes on both sides, primarily from Ivy League schools, who are in control. While they may run the country into the ground, they will damn sure keep the power, control and money inside the “family” while they do it.

My wife and I just recently hired a “college planner” to help us get through the college selection process with our 16 year old daughter. There is a tremendous amount of change that has happened since she a I went to college in the ‘90’s, the game is vastly different now. There is a tremendous amount of “need based” aid available for those who qualify (unfortunately/fortunately we don’t qualify for need based) as well as a very significant amount of “merit based” aid. Part of the reason we hired the planner/counselor is to make sure our daughter is headed down a degree path that lines up with her skills, interests and abilities and hopefully sets her up for success rather than a difficult struggle that may or may not end up with a degree.
 
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