Utah cuts 13,000 deer permits

[Ben Lamb]

Rather than hjack the BAYED thanks thread, here's a better link about the recent reduction in hunter opportunity in Utah.
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/home/50889688-76/wildlife-deer-percent-utah.html.csp

Curious as to the forum's take on this.

 

[Dinkshooter]

Sweet, soon we can go to Utah and repay the favor of the last 10 years of Muley hunting in Colorado.

 

[noharleyyet]

...got a chuckle out of this comment:

It's not fair, its republican.

 

[Big Fin]

Having watched it unfold over the last twenty years, here is an outsider's perspective. I am not a UT citizens, so I have not say in what they do, and how they manage their game. And, I don't live there, so my outside perspective is going to miss some critical parts of the equation.

It appears that Utah wants to focus on the fringes of the problem, not the core of the problem. Habitat.

Predators take their share, but killing predators as a game management tool is most often a temporary relief (relief we need from wolves in my back yard), and results in wasted money that is better spent on habitat.

Utah has experienced population growth like no other Rocky Mountain state. Most of that growth has occured on the Wastach Front and other valleys and foothills that are critical winter ground for mule deer.

As humans encroach, so do their pets, their toys, invasive plant species, and these humans demand fire suppression to protect their newly built structures. Pets and motorized toys affect wintering animals. Fire suppression affects huge expanses of habitat that reaches a climax stage and become less productive for food and cover.

Utah also seems to support citizens' rights to drive a motorized vehicles to any place they please. Even in the areas I have been that had motorized restrictions, the ethic of many of the hunters was to disregard those restricitons and drive in anyhow.

In a period of expanding population, you cannot have continual habitat encroachment and degredation, along with unrestricted motorized access, and expect your herds to be healthy and the quality of the hunting experience to be positive.

There is probably little relief in sight for Utah, as they have a birth rate 50% above the national average and the lowest media age of any state in the Union (source http://www.utahfoundation.org/reports/?page_id=328). They will continue to have more population increase, by percentages, than any other Rocky Mountain state.

The pressure the growth has placed on the habitat and the animals will only continue. Cutting opportunity, while doing nothing about habitat issues, seems questionable.

There are only so many variables that F&G departments can control. Opportunity and predators seems to be the two fixes that are always reached for.

Long-term habitat investments and better control over access require a longer-term views, are more difficult, and at times, more expensive. But, history has shown the rewards to be far greater and more long lasting.

Neighboring states willing to impose more restrictions on motorized access, either seasonally or permanently, seem to be able to support higher numbers or hunter use days per square mile.

Though MT has not nearly the population of UT, we are able to sell almost 200,000 licenses for deer and elk, including 17,500 to non-residents. In restricting motorized access, we can have a six week archery season and a five week rifle season.

The hunter days per square mile are probably some of the highest in the Rockies, due in part to these travel restrictions. And, we are able to maintain higher quality experiences, at a better age class, than other states that have used the restricted tag route, rather than the restricted travel option.

Again, I am not a resident of UT, so whatever they do should be a reflection of their values, not a reflection of values held by us non-residents.

Just glad I am not faced with the decisions they are. They have some of the wildest rugged country you could ask for, and historically some of the best mule deer habitat in the west. For whatever reason, many other options have not been, or will not be, considered.

I don't live in Utah, which is why I predicated this diatribe as that of an outsider looking in. Observations from my travels there, which are probably three or four times a year, for the last ten years.

I think many of the other Western states can learn from what Utah has done, and is doing, in the face of pressures all the Rocky Mountain states are facing, but to a lesser degree than Utah.

 

[1_pointer]

Fin- I would have to say you are correct on the impacts of the population growth. IMO, it's real and measurable. The corresponding habitat impacts, to include fire suppression and ATVuse are also happening. On those, I would say you are spot on.

I will disagree with you on the habitat work though. I would be surprised if many states are putting as much money into habitat work as the agencies, both state and federal as they are in UT. Those that make up the Utah PCD http://www.utahpcd.info/index.html are putting millions into habitat related projects throughout the state. BLM alone has around $10 million that they spend annually throughout the state through this collaborative effort. Part of the problem, as I see it, is twofold; 1. some of this is coming on a bit too late and 2. UT is the second driest state in the country. The habitat work that is going on is helping, but it will take years for the cummulative effects to be realized. However, regardless of the amount of work, UT just does not have the ability to produce the amounts of game that many other states have. Though I don't agree with alot of the decisions of the UT DWR, their focus on quality over quantity is probably the best decision for the state.

Just some comments from a has-been there on these issues.

 

[DHaffner]

maybe it's just me but what I take from that is the value of P.P. in Utah just went up...

 

[Big Fin]

Thanks, Pointer. I was not aware of those programs doing all that habitat work. Glad to see it. Hope it is not too late, and is enough to offset the other pressures and demands.

 

[Oak]

Colorado has about 200,000 more mule deer than UT, and in 2010 CO issued 54,596 buck or either sex mule deer tags....a little more than half of what UT issued.

 

[trevore]

I've never applied for Utah and have only been there to ski. From what I've read on another forum, it's a sticky situation for anybody involved with making the decisions. Hope they are able to put some plans into action that make a difference....

 

[Ben Lamb]

Fin- I would have to say you are correct on the impacts of the population growth. IMO, it's real and measurable. The corresponding habitat impacts, to include fire suppression and ATVuse are also happening. On those, I would say you are spot on.

I will disagree with you on the habitat work though. I would be surprised if many states are putting as much money into habitat work as the agencies, both state and federal as they are in UT. Those that make up the Utah PCD http://www.utahpcd.info/index.html are putting millions into habitat related projects throughout the state. BLM alone has around $10 million that they spend annually throughout the state through this collaborative effort. Part of the problem, as I see it, is twofold; 1. some of this is coming on a bit too late and 2. UT is the second driest state in the country. The habitat work that is going on is helping, but it will take years for the cummulative effects to be realized. However, regardless of the amount of work, UT just does not have the ability to produce the amounts of game that many other states have. Though I don't agree with alot of the decisions of the UT DWR, their focus on quality over quantity is probably the best decision for the state.

Just some comments from a has-been there on these issues.

Just curious, how much of that habitat work is on private land/off limit land?

 

[belly-deep]

I agree with BigFin on the motorized issue. Idaho has the same problem, although it is not as severe as Utah. Make people walk more and there will be more animals in the hills. When there are more animals, you can give out more tags and make the seasons longer.

I also think it has something to do with all of the season restrictions and LE areas. Think back to when the entire state of Utah was open to general tags (if it ever was, we're just pretending here). As soon as one area was put on a draw, the hunters from that unit had to go somewhere else. So on and so forth as more units are put on draws. Pretty soon you have everyone crammed into 1/2 the country that was once available, and so what remains open is crowded.

Then you throw the elk into the mix. First off, high elk populations in an area usually result in lower mule deer numbers. Second, most elk units in Utah are on a draw, and so the hunting pressure is concentrated on the deer more instead of being spread out on both species. Don't get me wrong, from a trophy perspective, Utah's elk hunting is great. Great that is, for a NR. But for the residents, it sucks because a guy can't hardly go out into the hills with a general tag.

 

[jlmatthew]

Though MT has not nearly the population of UT, we are able to sell almost 200,000 licenses for deer and elk, including 17,500 to non-residents. In restricting motorized access, we can have a six week archery season and a five week rifle season.

Only 17,500 non-residents! that is a dream here in Colorado. We're the dumping grounds for everyone that couldnt draw a tag elsewhere, or who watched the latest Primos video. Our Division of Wildlife manages the money not the wildlife. You guys are straight up SPOILED!!!

 

[noharleyyet]

We're the dumping grounds

Pretty expensive dumping grounds for NR's but if it makes you feel any better, Co. is my first choice.

 

[1_pointer]

Ben- The majority of the projects are on public land, IME, but not all. BLM is the largest contributor of funds and its funds cannot be spent on private ground. The funds for private lands come from some of the other contributors. However, BLM is generally not the sole funder of projects on BLM land. It's a pretty good way to leverage interest and funding for habitat projects. The other interesting thing is the groups willingness to help fund changes in management that can have an even longer lasting impact than just killing trees or setting a few fires.

 

[1_pointer]

Colorado has about 200,000 more mule deer than UT, and in 2010 CO issued 54,596 buck or either sex mule deer tags....a little more than half of what UT issued.

Doesn't surprise me. This cut has been needed and coming for some time. IMO, the high tag numbers was supported by the general hunting population in UT. Most just want to go hunting every year, regardless if that affects long term management.

 

[1_pointer]

Then you throw the elk into the mix. First off, high elk populations in an area usually result in lower mule deer numbers. Second, most elk units in Utah are on a draw, and so the hunting pressure is concentrated on the deer more instead of being spread out on both species. Don't get me wrong, from a trophy perspective, Utah's elk hunting is great. Great that is, for a NR. But for the residents, it sucks because a guy can't hardly go out into the hills with a general tag.

Elk do not have to have a negative impact on deer populations. There's plenty of data to prove that is not always the case. Residents can hit the hills with a general elk tag, just that most of the state is for spikes.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Thanks, pointer.

 

[Zach]

Elk do not have to have a negative impact on deer populations. There's plenty of data to prove that is not always the case. Residents can hit the hills with a general elk tag, just that most of the state is for spikes.

There was just an article in MDF about the impact of Elk on the deer populations. I'll have to go back and re-read it, but I thought the increasing elk numbers will decrease deer numbers in that area, not necessarily impact the overall herd count.

 

[Big Fin]

Pointer - You lived and worked on these issues for many years while planted in Utah. Do you think they have a problem that is fixable?

Not that you are DP, but if you were, what would be the long-term solutions you would put in place? Just curious, as my observations are always tainted by my bias toward preserving opportunity and keeping hunters in the field, with greater restrictions on access. Maybe that won't work in Utah.

Do you see them going the same route with deer as they did with elk? Extreme quality with very little opportunity.

 

[rosco]

No one knows whats going on with Mule Deer, and it isnt just a Utah problem..Take for instance the area of NW Utah I'm in..cant blame elk, while there are a few more than there was in the 80's, there isnt really a sizable herd out here.Plus they are hunted on an OTC any bull permit.

Cant really blame subdivisions, aint any..This area has grown in population very little in the past 20 years. I dont blame predators either.. while I think there is more predators here now, I dont think there are that many more.(in my area anyway)

Cant really blame hunters, most all the private that used to be hunted on a handshake, is now leased and enrolled in a CWMU, so I would bet less deer, by far are being killed now than just 10 years ago.

There are two things I can point a finger at and it is what Fin and Pointer have already mentioned, Habitat..It aint from human encroachment tho (again, in my area), its from PJ encroachment.The vast sage flats are now 60% PJ flats..give it another 20 years and it will be nothing but PJ and dirt.They really need to bring back chaining the crap, and on a large scale. The other thing is depredation hunts, on bad years the deer will pile outta the hills during the summer and fall, and they are slaughtered by the "emergency" issue of depredation permits to appease landowners (part of which I understand, but its a complex issue)..One year of a slaughter like this, can undo 5 years of easy winters and successful fawn crops.


While I welcome the cut in tags as a quick temporary fix, something needs to be done long term...Also, I believe there needs to be more ATV restrictions on public land..But this will do little good in my area, 90% of the NW corner is private.

Me, I just out and hunt by Dinkshooters place