UNIONS .. YEH ? or NEY ?

[Chambo]

Lets say I work for a company that has 1500 employees. At first there were a couple of recruiters getting cards signed. Sort of like in the corners and in dark places .
After a couple of years there is a call to vote, based on the number of signed cards.

Not all the employees are wanting a union shop. It goes to a vote and there is a majority vote. We aren't talking 99% for and 1 % against either !

Now we have 500 people that never signed a card to join a union with really very few choices to either follow like sheep or find work somewhere else.Great !! now we pay dues that we didn't want in the first place , but now I am makeing 25 cents more an hour. The contract comes up and the plant goes out on strike for 6 months trying to get a 50 cent raise.
1000 of these people asked for it 500 did not, but now they are all out of work.

How long will it take before they get their lost wages back at 25 cents an hour?

Chances are there will be another strike before it is recouped.

Long strikes are nothing short of a form of blackmail .

Heaven forbid if those 500 people cross the line to work, like they wanted anything to do with it in the first place !!

I think that the 1000 people that wanted to vote a union in should quit and go look for a job in a union shop instead of bullying and browbeating the 500 into THEIR shop.
United rubber workers of america can kiss my ass !!!
I belong to local 50 teamsters and am not currently active.

 

[beardown]

I'm independent and don't have any employees. The jobs that I have got have all been residential and as far as I know no union shops bid residential. At least they dont in AZ. My heart is with the union man if I ever can go big I'll be a union shop. The problem in AZ is all the non union shops hire illegals which drive down the wages and the job conditions. Plus all the illegals send their money back to Mexico and it is never spent here in the US, which is whats killin the economy. Now I'm scabbin up here in MT which really is'nt scabbin cuz I'm doing some work for familly. I will be doing my own thing up here again and hope I can work twords having a union shop. If I did have employees I would want them to be trained by the bast and would have no problem paying for it.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Beardown,

So if you had 20 employees working for you, you would want them to be in a union? You would encourage them to have a Union negotiate a contract with you? Why on earth would you not choose to treat them "fairly", and avoid the need/hassles/issues with a Union?

I don't know if I have ever heard of a owner of a company wanting a Union to come in and organize his empoloyees.

 

[RogueWarrior1957]

Yeah Chambo,

I hear you. I worked in a situation like that once. It didn't pan out that time.

-RW-

 

[Iron Buck]

RW1957:

You bring up a VERY good point.........UNION SLACKERS! I live & work in Wstern PA. Once a very big union town because of steel mills. Many of my family members have been union. My brother who WAS in the electrical union for many years lost his job last year because GE could not afford to keep their plant fully staffed. LOTS of the had to do with slakers.....and the union attitude of seniority.

While I have never been in a union and most likely never will be, being in the construction industry and running governmet jobs from time to time I have had to work with many union carpenters, laborers, electricians etc. I will give the unions credit......MANY of their guys are top notch. It is a pleasure having them perform on a job. Things done right..the FIRST time! BUT at a high cost. With goverment work...much of this is mandated....we have to use union workers or at least pay prevailing wage (of course........after all, it is TAXPAYER money....our money.....a bottomless pit right

) If I could pick and choose what workers I wanted on a job site this would not be that bad. But I can't ...............and the SLACKERS SUCK! It makes me sick that they are even allowed on jobsites. Corrupting the attitudes and outlook of everyone around them. These workers are hardily resposible for the demise of unions in this country today. And the fact that companies are taking jobs out of this country.

Even though I am non union, I can see where there is still a need for unions today. BUT if they want to survive they will have to change their ways. I feel that if they would make only ONE CHANGE........PROMOTION AND JOB SECURITY ON MERIT!!!!!! NOT SENIORITY!!!

They would again be force to be recconed with in America and around the world. It could be win-win for both employes and companies. Companies would benefit through increased production and HOPEFULLY higer quality. Members would benefit because their jobs would be more secure AND stay here in the USA.

Problem is..this makes to much sense and the Union cronies are to stupid to follow through on anything like this that would work. The SLAKERS would sream to loud. So therefore..........the SLAKERS will kill the unions. And more jobs will be lost to companiies or plants outside the USA.

 

[pawclaws]

What is it that unions do for the employee that the employee can not do for his or herself? Whiskers I believe it was Nixon!

Yes it was the American Federation of Government Employees. I remember we had an arbitration coming down and National sent an ahem; "advisor" to help prepare and collect evidence. We'll call him "Blackie"; cause that was his name! The first thing he did was show us how to steal documents off a desk top!

When I was able to answer the question above, I stopped my union memberships.

 

[RogueWarrior1957]

Paws,

To try to answer you as truthfully and concise as I am capable. A moderately large utility corporation, such as the one I work for, has lawyers on retainer by the scad. Different ones for different situations who specialize in finding loopholes. I can't afford lawyers of that caliber other than through the collective pool of the union. And unfortunately, I'm not smart enough to get through all that legal jargon on my own.

I agree whole-heartedly with the statement that was made about promotions and raises due to merit rather than simply seniority. During the last downsize, I felt the bite of that reality in the first person sense. During my apprenticeship which was coordinated through the local college, I maintained a 3.79 GPA. When they had a Craft Proficiency Test later on, I scored highest out of about 200 people. There was a certain slacker who shall remain nameless. He worked in one of the departments that required no apprenticeship because he's already flunked out of one! When my old department and his combined in 1998, he had a few weeks seniority on me, so I was "targeted" and he went into my old job, basically, with no experience or training. I have never felt that was right...not just because I was affected, but this guy would be dangerous carrying out the garbage...seriously. I've warned all my maintenance friends to double check everything, even if it is supposedly "tagged out" for their own personal safety.

Okay...I've gabbed enough!

There's good and bad aspects to most anything you look at.

 

[pawclaws]

I understand completely RW. The Federal government not only has all the money but their own staff of lawyers, legal paper worms in personnel, and also write the freakin' laws. I have been in situations where the light at the end of the tunnel was terribly dim and needed all the help I could find. I actually, with no place left to turn, threatened management at one location with developing and installing a union if certain practices which skirted the law were not changed. That was one very miserable time; but, by writing a few letters and making a few calls and working with the other employees we were actually able to have our top dog boss, a bonafide sphincter perfectus, replaced. Blew my mind; but confirmed what I originally came to believe.

 

[cjcj]

Unions also support illegals, and organize them, so in that sense they are anti-american. IMO.

 

[Nut]

Unions are like both major political parties. The ones involved are self serving bastards who dont care 1 iota for the members or the American People.

 

[les48]

when did getting payed to work turn into having to pay to work???? i have belonged to the uaw & ibew and they are both nothing but money grabbing criminal organizations.i am amazed at anybody that thinks paying a union for the privalege of working is ok!!

 

[RogueWarrior1957]

Okay...time for some humor in this situation. I think I have an explanation:

Corporation (kor'pa ray'shun) [from the Latin word Corpus meaning body] He's the guy who pushed you in the deep water knowing fully well you couldn't swim.

Buddy (bud'ee) [colloq.] a close friend; companion; comrade in arms. He's the guy who jumped in to save you knowing that neither of you know how to swim...he's drowning too!

Union (yoon'yun) [from Latin word Unis meaning one] He's the guy who yells, "Hey, you two in the water drowning! For 10% of your paycheck, I'll throw you a rope!"

Paws...you should have warned them that I was a lunatic!

<insert unbridled horse laugh>

-RW-

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 01-03-2004 17:44: Message edited by: RogueWarrior1957 ]</font>

 

[Erik in AK]

This is all my opinion so take it with however many grains of salt you need to

I'm no expert on all this, but from what I do know about unions, I'm no fan.

Unions emerged to address legitimate needs: American factories were atrociously dangerous places and the workers suffered quietly or were canned. Collective bargaining for fair wages and reasonable, safe working conditions are all good things brought about by unions, but lets be honest, the savior has become the tyrant. Unions still have a role I think, but like the corporate management they battle, they too have become greedy.

I have this to ask of the pro-union guys, especially those in the manufacturing sector...
Why are manufacturing jobs moving to the third world?
Why is industry replacing men with robots at every opportunity?

From the other side of the coin...for those of you who claim to buy American, have you told your wife she is no longer allowed to shop at Wal-Mart? Go there and try to find something besides soda and chips NOT made in China or Malaysia? Everytime you shop Wal-Mart(and most other retail places) you help put more Americans out of work.

Why is that so? Basic economics. Wages are the single largest component of the average large companies overhead. "Reduce overhead" is the mantra of business, always has been.
People cost a lot of money directly and indirectly.
If you do a little homework you'll find that most layoffs occur in the same months; January, April, July and October. Know what they have in common? They're the first month of their respective fiscal quarters. Dump the bodies, cut costs, boost the stock price for a week and everybody in senior management gets a bonus.

In America, 20 dollars buys 1 unskilled union laborer at a construction site who may or may not be worth a shit, for 1 hour.

In Malaysia(or Guatamala, or Sri Lanka, or, you get the picture) that same 20 dollars buys 50 workers for 12 hours who bust their asses for fear of being replaced by someone in the long(and growing) line of those for whom earning enough to ensure that they eat every day is really moving up in the world.

In short, unions still have a place but they are in need of serious reform.

(i know this was rambling but i'm too tired to edit it)

 

[cjcj]

I`ll answer the robotics part, In short robots work 24/7, don`t take breaks,don`t need sickleave,medical,dental,etc., they are almost perfect at the tasks that they are programmed to do such as welding,stamping,grinding,machining,painting,etc. they require little maint. and even check/inspect their own work so there is less or no rework/scrap. they also allow 1 human to run/monitor from 1-100 or more robots, these are all due to increased technology in software,hardware,microswitches,resolvers, and microelectric scales and such other innovations, in short the "robotics" side of manufacturing has made products, cheaper,faster, and of better quality at a lower cost.

 

[ktc]

I will chime in here.

I am not working today because my job was not represented. If it was, I would be working. If my job was represented then the unsafe working conditions would have been fixed. My benefit base was based on union negotiations. We got what they got.

I will go with you on this one YH. Those greedy corporate bastards can kiss my ass and if there is a group that can stand and have a voice against them then I am all for it.

Unions have their place in the work place today and tomorrow.

 

[Calif. Hunter]

ktc - not trying to argue, but I would like to know why you would still be employed if you had been union?

 

[ktc]

Since I was not represented I was put out to pasture on medical leave by management as a reduction in force tool. I was specifically asked, "are you a represented employee?"

If I had been represented my employment status would have gone through all of the steps and guidelines set forth by the company. I would have had a voice in the decisions that were made concerning my status. If the company has a contract with the union they must follow it to the letter. I was at their mercy because I had no representation.

$40 a month isn't much when you consider the fact they can terminate you for any reason at their discretion.

 

[MarlandS]

KTC , not to sound like a dick, but was your medical condition caused by working there?

 

[pawclaws]

KTC; sounds to me like you let your employer blow in your ear and feed you a line! Possible you were "bamboozled"? If you indeed are qualified for a medical retirement or disability, union affiliation would have no affect whatever.

 

[Whiskers]

I spent 27 years as a contract lineman. Sometimes union jobs, most of the time not. I could have should have went to work with the local power company, or phone company when I had the chance and would have received more benefits. But I wanted more dollars, so I stayed non-union unless I had to join to work a project. Most of the time we were John Doe members. We would buy a card from the union for a set amount to allow us to work on this project. The name on the card was JOHN DOE. When my part of the job was done, and I was shipped out to another one, I would sell or give my card to the guy coming in to do the next phase of the job. Does that protect the IBEW or CWA member who pays dues all year, goes out on strike? NO, and as a contractor we made more per hour but we didn't get any of the benefits. When we worked in NY city we had to belong to the IBEW where we received benefits, and insurance. Shoulda stayed with them.
Now I drive a bus for NJTransit, to supplement the little bit of money coming in, and get some benefits. I will pay them the $42 a month for the insurance and other bennies that the AMALGAMATED TRANSIT UNION LOCAL 880 brings us.