UNIONS .. YEH ? or NEY ?

[pawclaws]

Elkgunner, if my memory is halfway working I believe the stats came from a Joel Barker or Morris Massey video tape. If I can keep this sick puter working; I'll try to track it down for you. Keep me informed of your observations though, I find this kind of stuff fascinating. How is it you end up traveling to Japan so often, if I'm not being overly nosey? Now as to "bullshit"; Elkgunner, if indeed Harley has a 20 share of the Japanese market in the nich of 650+ cc bikes would that not indicate that one of every five bikes purchased in that size is a HD? How many brands do you suppose are sold in Japan? Do they sell Yamahas, Hondas, Kawasakis, Mitsubishis, BMWs, Bridgestones, Dukatis, others? Accurate or not, I find it significant. I'll try in the future to provide you with a data source that you may find more authoritative than "bullshit!"

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 01-18-2004 08:47: Message edited by: pawclaws ]</font>

 

[pawclaws]

Elkgunner, I believe that was a video tape by Joel Barker called; "The Paradigm Effect."

 

[JoseCuervo]

Paws,

It depends on if it is significant, based on relative market size. My guess is for Harley to claim a significant Market share of 651+cc bikes, may not mean much in a country where that category of bikes is not the norm. It would be like Dodge claiming to be the leading 3/4 ton truck seller in Japan, if they sold BOTH of the 3/4 trucks last year.

And how would you explain the decline in sales by Harley in Japan? Would that point to bad union employees? Assuming you were giving credit for the upswing to the employees.

And why not address the 45% tarriff, and how Harley was allowed to have the government wipe out all competition for 4 years? That does not seem like employees, but Protectionism that allowed Harley to rebound until the Middle Aged White Guys started worrying about re-capturing their youthful dreams?

And if you give credit to Harley employees, wouldn't you give the credit to the Suits in Marketing, as the Harley people I know are not buying a bike, they are buying a Brand and an image, the bike just comes along.

 

[Moosie]

Gunner is a Male Prostitute. The Asian Men prefer the Lean tall type that like to travel. Gunner makes alot of money doing it so We don't tease him much.

And Gunner... If you leave durring bear season again this year for 3 weeks, Make sure it's the Latter part so you can Help set up and I reap the Benni's from it. Unlike last year when... Errrr Never mind

I didn't go back and read stuff, I prefer pictures. But someone tell me why we're talking about 20% of the MotorBikes in Japan when this topic was on American Unions

 

[pawclaws]

Elkgunner I did not address the tariff because I am not familiar with it, the specifics, or affects. I do not credit the employees of HD, rather a distinct change in managment style which evolved to include the employees as a part of management essentially. Twenty percent is still twenty percent regardless of how else it may be defined. I do not have an exact strata definition for you. Moosie, I'm glad that Elkgunner has an honorable profession. Originally I thought he might be a reprobate consultant or possibly worse; the former Director of Rocky Mountain Blue Cross/Blue Shield.

 

[Moosie]

I'm with Paws on this question... Just What DO you do at yer office ?

 

[Moosie]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Moosie,
You make it sound like the wimmin in Japan never hire male prostitutes. It does happen, you know... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Or is it Visa Versa ? ....

 

[pawclaws]

Well actually Elkgunner if I understand the HD management philosophy correctly; a dealer who is ailenating customers would in theory be removed from the system rather quickly. The intent isn't to "treat the customer like a King"; although I see absolutely nothing wrong with that, but to assure that each customer is provided quality products and service in mutually agreed upon terms. Will HD last? Don't know; maybe not as a motorcycle manufacturer. I believe that their philosophy is now such that should bikes become more or less extinct that they will survive and produce something else.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Paws,

Success can hide lots of flaws and shortcomings. The true test of Harley will be if they are building something that will last, or if it is just a fad they got caught up in. It would likely be an easy metric to measure: Average age of a new Harley Purchaser. If it is increasing each year, then they are riding the same group of Middle Aged White Guys with clogged arteries. If it is holding the same, then they are bringing new people into the target market. If it is decreasing, then they are expanding the target market. I have heard horror stories about bad Harley dealers, and the guys having to drive 150 miles to one they like, as the demand is so great, the dealers don't have to treat every customer like the King. If that is the market, then all sorts of flaws can be hidden by the success. Only a turn in circumstances will expose the sound structure or weakness.

Moosie,
You make it sound like the wimmin in Japan never hire male prostitutes. It does happen, you know...

 

[Whiskers]

MOOSIE you done did it with this post. Are you trying to break LB's Word Association post record with the longest running, most pages topics?

 

[Moosie]

Whiskers.. You will soon Find out I have the Power to "KEEP" topics going.... Or "KILL" them .. (It's a Gift

)

 

[Ithaca 37]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=536&ncid=536&e=8&u=/ap/20040121/ap_on_el_pr/democrats_labor

Are the unions losing their political punch? Read the above article!

"WASHINGTON - Organized labor is taking a hard look at its political influence and voter turnout operations after the two union-backed candidates that were to dominate the Iowa caucuses sank instead...."

 

[Calif. Hunter]

Hallelulah! The power of unions in politics should be broken - the members should have the intelligence to make their own choices and rebel against the standard "we know what best for you - better than you do" line.

The grocery workers union out here is beginning to resort to the "sky is falling" tactic of warning how if their strike fails, then everyone in the country will be forced to pay for all of their benefits cost.

C'mon - they're being asked to pay something like $25 a month. Employers who want the best workers will always have to compete for them, and offering benefits is one way to attract good employees.

 

[beardown]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Calif. Hunter:
- the members should have the intelligence to make their own choices and rebel against the standard
Thats why they are union, so they actually have a say.
- t Employers who want the best workers will always have to compete for them, and offering benefits is one way to attract good employees.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Kinda like ENRON ?...

 

[Calif. Hunter]

I didn't say all that. The only part of the above that is close to what I said is the first line and part of one other line. You must have inserted the middle part yourself. They still only get one vote apiece - doesn't that count as having their say? And what does Enron have to do with Unions? Or the unions' political choices????

 

[BHR]

If you want to give your money to an organization that claims it will help you get a better pay rate, working conditions, and benefits, Go For It. It's your money to piss away. I'd rather let MY work set its own rate. And that don't cost me a dime!

What I don't understand is our pal to the North, Yuke. He works for the Gubbermint and needs to belong to a Union? Why? Canadian Government already provides health care. He claims to like to pay higher taxes so his country can induldge its citizens in all kinds of neccessary social programs. His union then attempts to extort a higher wage for him from his country in order to offset the higher taxes he has no problem in paying. Reminds me of a dog chasing his tail!

Paul

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 01-24-2004 18:43: Message edited by: BHR ]</font>

 

[jmehler]

OK, here's my experience with unions. I belonged to two of them at different times. First the UPIU. Worked at that place less than a year when it closed up. (Not saying that the union was the reason, but being a member sure didn't help me) Second, was the USWA. Worked at the foundry 5+ years. Union never really did me any good. After I left there I thought it kind of interesting that the union president got caught skimming. To be fair though, a couple years later some of the higher ups in management did too. That place is also now closed. Now to my most recent exposure. I just got off 5 months of active duty at a "defense supply depot that shall remain nameless." There are NINE unions there. I have never seen so many do so little. Again, to be fair, there are guys there (and ladies too!) that bust their humps day in and day out. They also didn't like what they saw their union "bretheren" doing. Didn't change anything though. Boss's couldn't do anything to anyone without umpteen "documented cases" of wrong doing. All had to be for the same thing too. Some new problem, start a new file. The union officials were interested in what my shipmates and I were doing. I was interested in why they never seemed to do a goddam thing. Never saw much going on but a lot of time on the cell phone. What WE were doing was inspecting shipments before they went out...to exotic foreign sounding places. Like Iraq and such. So I was asked by a shop stewert just why they had us there. So I told him. "Because apparently you people can't do your $*)Q!#@$ job." I can't go into the rate of screwups, but it made me sick. I was oh, so glad to get out of there. The more things changed, the more they stayed the same. Left quite a bad taste in my mouth.