Ukraine / Russia

[Handlebar]

I am fairly comfortable with my positions on all three issues you mix together. Isolationism doesn't work, kitchen table math doesn't drive good fiscal policy, and unless you are enrolled in one of the local tribes I suggest you connect with your ancestors about their view on immigration.

I am fairly comfortable in my positions as well.
Since we have not be isolationist since 1917, we would not know if it works or not. Debt can be a useful tool and we should use, unfortunately we have used excessively and not wisely, those chickens will come home to roost.
The old "we are all children of immigrants" argument, well that is true but does not mean that we should continue with a out of control unrestricted access.
All of the things we are talking about could done in such a way as to be a net benefit to the country, a sensible foreign policy the appropriate use of debt and a immigration policy that brings in talented hard working people we do none of those things.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

we should continue with an out of control unrestricted access

I can’t help but roll my eyes at this, a friend from college married a man from the Grenadines.

He couldn’t get a tourist visa to visit before they were married, when he came over to me her parents they had to meet in Canada.

After they got married it took literally years to get a visa to come into the US, and he’s still probably a decade from citizenship, despite kids/job/ buying a house etc in the US.

Now I’m not saying this is a massive problem with illegal immigration but as far as legal immigration, the US is one of the stingiest countries in the world.

 

[Handlebar]

I can’t help but roll my eyes at this, a friend from college married a man from the Grenadines.

He couldn’t get a tourist visa to visit before they were married, when he came over to me her parents they had to meet in Canada.

After they got married it took literally years to get a visa to come into the US, and he’s still probably a decade from citizenship, despite kids/job/ buying a house etc in the US.

Now I’m not saying this is a massive problem with illegal immigration but as far as legal immigration, the US is one of the stingiest countries in the world.

Legal immigration is not the problem

 

[BrentD]

Legal immigration is not the problem

Yes it is. There isn't nearly enough of it to keep the economy afloat - among other things.

 

[ismith]

I can’t help but roll my eyes at this, a friend from college married a man from the Grenadines.

He couldn’t get a tourist visa to visit before they were married, when he came over to me her parents they had to meet in Canada.

After they got married it took literally years to get a visa to come into the US, and he’s still probably a decade from citizenship, despite kids/job/ buying a house etc in the US.

Now I’m not saying this is a massive problem with illegal immigration but as far as legal immigration, the US is one of the stingiest countries in the world.

It’s so hard to draw a tag for that unit, but the game warden is not allowed to check your license and is mandated to dress and recover your game for you.

 

[Handlebar]

Yes it is. There isn't nearly enough of it to keep the economy afloat - among other things.

what I was saying is that I am not opposed to legal immigration, but rather the current mess with illegal immigration.

 

[ismith]

Yes it is. There isn't nearly enough of it to keep the economy afloat - among other things.

Ponzi schemes are a bitch, aren’t they?

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Legal immigration is not the problem

My point is there really isn’t a functional legal pathway… and that is one part of the problem.

Kinda like prohibition… people just do it illegally and that creates more issues because it creates a black market, outside the law, culture.

 

[SAJ-99]

@VikingsGuy did a good job explaining it I think. It’s really a bad economic situation driven by demographics.

I’m not an expert, and like I said, there are folks who have interesting rebuttals, but here’s an eight minute video, roughly summarizing it.

Wow. Kind of a mixed salad of economic and sociological concepts. Like I said, I go back to Japan. Nothing collapses other than real growth. If you want a societal collapse based on demographics, give young men a lot of free time and zero job prospects for a long stretch of time.

 

[antlerradar]

I have not read his most recent book, but I have listed to Peter Zeihan on a half dozen podcasts. Using demography and the structure and trends of age pyramids, he predicts the demographic collapse of a hell of a lot of countries in the next decade or two. In fact, he uses the aforementioned logic to explain Russia's current aggression

Sending a few hundred thousand young men to die in Ukraine is probably not helping with the age pyramid.

 

[VikingsGuy]

but does not mean that we should continue with a out of control unrestricted access.
All of the things we are talking about could done in such a way as to be a net benefit to the country, a sensible foreign policy the appropriate use of debt and a immigration policy that brings in talented hard working people we do none of those things.

As a portion of the country's population at the time, do you think our current rate (including illegal) is abnormally high for US?

 

[BrentD]

I am fairly comfortable in my positions as well.
The old "we are all children of immigrants" argument, well that is true but does not mean that we should continue with a out of control unrestricted access.

What our of control unrestricted access is that? Did you not read @AvidIndoorsman post or not heard of the administration's border regulations?

 

[Handlebar]

As a portion of the country's population at the time, do you think our current rate (including illegal) is abnormally high for US?

I doubt it. We had a large influx of people prior to WWII. Just a quick look showed foreign born at 14% in 1930, currently we are right at that number now 13.9%

 

[Handlebar]

What our of control unrestricted access is that? Did you not read @AvidIndoorsman post or not heard of the administration's border regulations?

Are you for real, Customs and Border patrol encountered 3.2 million people crossing the border FY23.

 

[VikingsGuy]

All of the things we are talking about could done in such a way as to be a net benefit to the country, a sensible foreign policy the appropriate use of debt and a immigration policy that brings in talented hard working people we do none of those things.

We are in agreement here. Likely disagree on details and fixes, but I think we agree we are not doing well on important issues.

 

[BrentD]

Are you for real, Customs and Border patrol encountered 3.2 million people crossing the border FY23.

I'm real as hell. Nothing is unregulated. Perhaps you haven't been paying attention.

 

[SAJ-99]

Are you for real, Customs and Border patrol encountered 3.2 million people crossing the border FY23.

I think the vast majority of those people waited in line at the border patrol's office to claim asylum. All are allowed to go through the legal process, but a a lot were sent back to where they came from (the immigration policies of this administration are basically the same as the last, minus the separation of kids from parents). The debate could easily shift to whether or not economic sanctions on some of the countries in Latin America is net beneficial to the US. Some would hate sending checks just as much as they hate the people showing up at the border, so a no-win situation. The effectiveness of economic sanctions has been debated here too. The conclusion is it's messy.

 

[Sytes]

U.S. CBP is the acronym for "Customs and Border Protection".

On another note:


"CNN — A group of former Ukrainian servicemen, including prisoners of war, have “volunteered” to fight on the front lines for Russia, Moscow’s state-run news agency RIA Novosti has claimed, in a potential violation of international law."

https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/10/europe/russia-ukraine-war-pow-video-intl-hnk/index.html

 

[F250]

I'm real as hell. Nothing is unregulated. Perhaps you haven't been paying attention.

With your location listed as “in the middle “, you obviously do not have squads of illegal aliens streaming by your hunting blinds and trail cameras as we do here on the Northern Border. Conversations with Border Patrol center around lack of officers. Many BP officers are deployed from their assigned stations on the north border to the southern border. There is no way of knowing how many illegals have entered our country over the past 3 years.

 

[Handlebar]

I'm real as hell. Nothing is unregulated. Perhaps you haven't been paying attention.

I'm real as hell. Nothing is unregulated. Perhaps you haven't been paying attention.

The border is a mess and implying that it is regulated is asinine