Trudeau Puts Freeze On Handguns

[KB_]

What is the bug in the panties about AR's and AK's? Honest question: what is being defended when such a strong argument is made for not changing anything about access to these type of guns?

Its not anything to do with the type of weapon for me. Its how its handled, and the mental health patient that is handling it.

 

[schmalts]

So are we saying that the good that Kyle Rittenhouse did, as a civilian being there by his own choosing, outweighs the horrible things that happen with the same AR's? Look I own a handful of the same type of rifles, but I don't hunt with them, I don't sleep with them under my bed for home defense, I only plink with them. So to me, my desire to plink does not outweigh restricting a mentally disturbed person from being able to easily run down to Scheels and buy one. There are already certain weapons that manufacturers are not able to make and that I am not able to buy. What is the bug in the panties about AR's and AK's? Honest question: what is being defended when such a strong argument is made for not changing anything about access to these type of guns?

No, what I'm saying is the AR15 is irrelevant. Root causes..... rooooot causes. Maybe it was the pedo sex offender that was earlier in the day discharged from a hospital for mental health problems that later that day was running around threatening to kill people and attacked someone because he was mad his burning dumpster was put out before he could push it into a car lot to torch it? Would that be a little closer to the root cause than what kind of gun he was killed with?

 

[406dn]

Did you drink before turning 21?

Not in a bar. I unfortunately or not could not even come close to passing for 21, even at 21.

 

[BlazerBeam]

No, what I'm saying is the AR15 is irrelevant. Root causes..... rooooot causes. Maybe it was the pedo sex offender that was earlier in the day discharged from a hospital for mental health problems that later that day was running around threatening to kill people and attacked someone because he was mad his burning dumpster was put out before he could push it into a car lot to torch it? Would that be a little closer to the root cause than what kind of gun he was killed with?

yeah maybe type of gun is irrelevant? I don't know. so what do you do? I agree the "root causes" are helpful in identifying why a person acts the way they did, and that those issues need correcting in our society asap. But that will not happen before 4 dozen more of these events occur. So what do you do in the mean time?

 

[Wind Gypsy]

As for "bans". What does one actually do with an AR? Besides go to the range to play "army" and burn through 1500 rounds in 10 mins? Is there a need for one? Has any civilian actually DEFENDED themselves with an AR?

Not hard to find plenty of examples and understand why an AR as a self defense weapon is highly effective just like it is as a weapon used on offense.

The first two hits on a simple "self defense stories with an AR" search:

10 True AR-15 Self-Defense Stories - The Truth About Guns

"A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it." These AR-15 self defense stories are prime examples of times when the black rifle saved innocent lives.

www.thetruthaboutguns.com

Self-Defense Stories of AR-15 Armed Citizens - Guns and Ammo

Why do we need AR-15s and 30-round magazines? Constitutional rights aside, in these circumstances an AR-15 and a high-capacity magazine meant the difference between life and death for their owners.

www.gunsandammo.com

 

[Rhcuam]

Here’s what joe wants to do here.

• Raise the age for purchasing a semiautomatic centerfire rifle from 18 to 21 years old
• Make it illegal to import, sell, manufacture, transfer or possess a large-capacity magazine, with some exceptions
• Establish requirements regulating the storage of firearms on residential facilities
• Build on the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms' regulatory ban on bump stocks, attachments to guns that make rapid-fire easier. Existing bump stocks would have to be registered, and sale and possession by civilians of bump stocks would be banned.
• Current federal firearms regulations would apply to so-called "ghost guns."

I don’t see any compromising. It’s just gun owners losing.

 

[KB_]

Not hard to find plenty of examples and understand why an AR as a self defense weapon is more effective just like it is as a weapon used on offense.

The first two hits on a simple "self defense stories with an AR" search:

10 True AR-15 Self-Defense Stories - The Truth About Guns

"A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it." These AR-15 self defense stories are prime examples of times when the black rifle saved innocent lives.

www.thetruthaboutguns.com

Self-Defense Stories of AR-15 Armed Citizens - Guns and Ammo

Why do we need AR-15s and 30-round magazines? Constitutional rights aside, in these circumstances an AR-15 and a high-capacity magazine meant the difference between life and death for their owners.

www.gunsandammo.com

Speaking from experience, that caliber 5.56 or .223 tends to go thru walls, and tends to deflect easily so who knows where that round is going. Other then that, the platform itself being compact an lightweight is very good for close quarters combat. Some are better then others. M16 a2/a4 are a much longer rifle, while the m4 is considerably shorter.

One conundrum that always baffled me was when I was a flyer on ospreys we were issued m4's while everyone else was issued m16a4's. What freaking sense does that make?

I would never argue against them being a great platform for self defense. I simply argue the training regiment behind the platform. You know how many rounds your average 0311 marine infantrymen puts down range before a combat deployment? It is a lot.

A considerable amount of training and in safe hands, that rifle is not a problem. I dont see a problem with having to prove it when one is to go an purchase a weapon of any kind.

I mean seriously how many of us have had our dads or uncles pound it down our throat promoting safe arms handling.

I remember my dad constantly reminding me to keep weapon on safe until you are ready to fire. Never point your weapon at anything you do not intend to shoot. Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to fire.

Training.

 

[The Hedgehog]

Here’s what joe wants to do here.

• Raise the age for purchasing a semiautomatic centerfire rifle from 18 to 21 years old
• Make it illegal to import, sell, manufacture, transfer or possess a large-capacity magazine, with some exceptions
• Establish requirements regulating the storage of firearms on residential facilities
• Build on the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms' regulatory ban on bump stocks, attachments to guns that make rapid-fire easier. Existing bump stocks would have to be registered, and sale and possession by civilians of bump stocks would be banned.
• Current federal firearms regulations would apply to so-called "ghost guns."

I don’t see any compromising. It’s just gun owners losing.

Where'd you see this published?

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Speaking from experience, that caliber 5.56 or .223 tends to go thru walls, and tends to deflect easily so who knows where that round is going. Other then that, the platform itself being compact an lightweight is very good for close quarters combat. Some are better then others. M16 a2/a4 are a much longer rifle, while the m4 is considerably shorter.

One conundrum that always baffled me was when I was a flyer on ospreys we were issued m4's while everyone else was issued m16a4's. What freaking sense does that make?

I would never argue against them being a great platform for self defense. I simply argue the training regiment behind the platform. You know how many rounds your average 0311 marine infantrymen puts down range before a combat deployment? It is a lot.

A considerable amount of training and in safe hands, that rifle is not a problem. I dont see a problem with having to prove it when one is to go an purchase a weapon of any kind.

I mean seriously how many of us have had our dads or uncles pound it down our throat promoting safe arms handling.

I remember my dad constantly reminding me to keep weapon on safe until you are ready to fire. Never point your weapon at anything you do not intend to shoot. Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to fire.

Training.

From a civilian standpoint you can get any length AR you want starting at 5.5" barrels and you're not stuck with m855 or m193 ammo and can use more frangible options.

I'm not sure what training has to do with my posts? Does an AR require more training than a glock? browning BAR sporting rifle? Bolt action?

 

[BlazerBeam]

Not hard to find plenty of examples and understand why an AR as a self defense weapon is highly effective just like it is as a weapon used on offense.

The first two hits on a simple "self defense stories with an AR" search:

10 True AR-15 Self-Defense Stories - The Truth About Guns

"A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it." These AR-15 self defense stories are prime examples of times when the black rifle saved innocent lives.

www.thetruthaboutguns.com

Self-Defense Stories of AR-15 Armed Citizens - Guns and Ammo

Why do we need AR-15s and 30-round magazines? Constitutional rights aside, in these circumstances an AR-15 and a high-capacity magazine meant the difference between life and death for their owners.

www.gunsandammo.com

ok. still what is to be done? just consider school shootings as part of the deal? BTW I ask this as freedom loving conservative who owns 50+ guns, but also as a dad of 4 kids.

 

[KB_]

From a civilian standpoint you can get any length AR you want starting at 5.5" barrels and you're not stuck with m855 or m193 ammo and can use more frangible options.

I'm not sure what training has to do with my posts? Does an AR require more training than a glock? browning BAR sporting rifle? Bolt action?

I was simply complaining about what was issued in the military at the time I was there.

Second part: What I mean is that people should have a firm understanding of whatever weapon they buy and how they are used and proper handling of said weapon. That was my point, sorry not terribly clear.

 

[Rhcuam]

Where'd you see this published?

https://docs.house.gov/meetings/JU/JU00/20220602/114852/BILLS-117-HR-N000002-Amdt-1.pdf

CBS summary

House begins to move on sweeping gun control legislation

The House measure would raise the age for purchasing semiautomatic centerfire rifles from 18 to 21 and ban large-capacity magazines.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[Wind Gypsy]

ok. still what is to be done? just consider school shootings as part of the deal? BTW I ask this as freedom loving conservative who owns 50+ guns, but also as a dad of 4 kids.

I'm lost in the whole deal of what needs to be done. If just talking about gun control and not other societal issues that lead to these things, i think the thread vikingsguy put together has a lot of genuine and good thoughts in it which unfortunately will likely never come to light with our current politics.

 

[Cheesehead]

https://docs.house.gov/meetings/JU/JU00/20220602/114852/BILLS-117-HR-N000002-Amdt-1.pdf

CBS summary

House begins to move on sweeping gun control legislation

The House measure would raise the age for purchasing semiautomatic centerfire rifles from 18 to 21 and ban large-capacity magazines.

www.cbsnews.com

Good fracking start

 

[Rhcuam]

Good fracking start

That’s a big negative, sir.
They offer nothing in return for giving up rights. I do not need them telling me how to store my firearms in my own home. I also do not need them telling me what magazines I can and cannot use.

Those two points are big no’s for me. They want the other three we need to get something in return. As I mentioned above Cash and carry suppressors and get rid of the stupid short barrel rifle regulations.

 

[longbow51]

Maybe i'm blind, but I just dont see much focus on the shooters motives. I find it hard to believe that there is nobody trying to figure out why these people are inflecting these horrific acts, where is the news covering that?

Its always about the guns.

No, not actually correct. If it's a white guy, it's racism/white supremacy with guns secondary. If it's a person of color it's a gun issue. Unless it's a conservative person of color, then it's white supremacy.

 

[longbow51]

I remember an incident at a restaurant called Louies while I was in Oklahoma that nobody probably ever heard about, where a guy walked in all gung ho about shooting up the place and he had about a dozen bullet holes in him before he could even blink....all from average joe folks who had guns on them while in the restaurant. Luckily it was not Canada and those folks were legally able to carry handguns.

But the reality most can agree on is that something needs to happen...

I do think that a lot of solutions and suggestions are 'reactive' rather than 'proactive' though. The proactive thing that our government would do, is more policies and incentives that strengthen the family and return society to a sense of responsibility for ones self, family, and actions. Society, morals, the family unit, and accountability are degrading a rapid rate. Focus on reversing that course at the same time you discuss guns. As for "bans". What does one actually do with an AR? Besides go to the range to play "army" and burn through 1500 rounds in 10 mins? Is there a need for one? Has any civilian actually DEFENDED themselves with an AR? Nobody shot that oklahoma nut mentioned above with an AR. I don't know, but I don't really understand making them so easily available. Restrictions would have to start at the manufacturing level though to make any difference.

Yeah, many times. Goggle is your friend. For older folks particularly older women, who often have arthritic hands and wrists a low-recoiling AR is perfect for home defense. Many couldn't handle a hard-recoiling shotgun.

 

[Rhcuam]

10rds is the limit they want to put on you.
That is unacceptable and totally ridiculous. This is coming from someone who gets to keep and use all their magazines due to the nice little exemption they worked in. I’m sure in an effort to win over LEO across the country.

 

[longbow51]

Speaking from experience, that caliber 5.56 or .223 tends to go thru walls, and tends to deflect easily so who knows where that round is going. Other then that, the platform itself being compact an lightweight is very good for close quarters combat. Some are better then others. M16 a2/a4 are a much longer rifle, while the m4 is considerably shorter.

One conundrum that always baffled me was when I was a flyer on ospreys we were issued m4's while everyone else was issued m16a4's. What freaking sense does that make?

I would never argue against them being a great platform for self defense. I simply argue the training regiment behind the platform. You know how many rounds your average 0311 marine infantrymen puts down range before a combat deployment? It is a lot.

A considerable amount of training and in safe hands, that rifle is not a problem. I dont see a problem with having to prove it when one is to go an purchase a weapon of any kind.

I mean seriously how many of us have had our dads or uncles pound it down our throat promoting safe arms handling.

I remember my dad constantly reminding me to keep weapon on safe until you are ready to fire. Never point your weapon at anything you do not intend to shoot. Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to fire.

Training.

As far as wall penetration, you're thinking about FMJ, which no one in his right mind would use for home defense. FBI tests have shown that .223/5.56 hollow point are in fact, less likely to penetrate walls than pistol rounds. Attached is the summary but it links the FBI data.

Why "High Powered" 5.56 NATO/.223 AR-15 Ammo is Safer For Home Defense (FBI overpenetration testing) - Prepared Gun Owners

If you listen to the mainstream media, then the standard 5.56 NATO/.223 Remington cartridges the AR-15 shoots are “high powered assault weapon” rounds that have no place in civilian hands. (I hope you are catching the sarcasm as I’m pouring it on) Yet, as we’ve discussed previously, the AR-15 is...

preparedgunowners.com

 

[Nemont]

Good fracking start

I am curious which parts you believe should go further? If this a good start, what would be a great ending in your mind?

I don't have any answers regarding dealing with mass shootings. I am not against new gun laws, I just don't believe in knee jerk/feel good legislation that addresses something so politically charged. No way that gets through the Senate with Joe Machin from WV.

I doubt Jerry Nadler knows one end of a gun from another.

Nemont