Too Many Elk

[Mallardsx2]

^^^ Open to residents only. lol Big surprise there.

 

[Wild Bill]

^^^ Open to residents only. lol Big surprise there.

Makes sense that what is essentially a depredation hunt is only open to residents. Typically they're not given much notice as to when they're needed, and usually occurs later in the season when weather can make travel difficult. They're not going to call a guy in Waterloo, IA to try and take a couple elk off a hay field in SW Montana.

 

[BuzzH]

^^^ Open to residents only. lol Big surprise there.

Yeah, because it works real well, when the hunters from Georgia have to drive up to Montana to complete the coursework, field work, etc. on the Landowners property.

Even more efficient for that same dude from Georgia to drive on up, take a couple days on short notice to kill elk raiding the landowners fields.

Sorry, the world doesn't revolve on your choice in places to live...if you want to participate, move to Montana and gain residency.

This is a local program, solving local problems...you aren't local.

 

[BuzzH]

Makes sense that what is essentially a depredation hunt is only open to residents. Typically they're not given much notice as to when they're needed, and usually occurs later in the season when weather can make travel difficult. They're not going to call a guy in Waterloo, IA to try and take a couple elk off a hay field in SW Montana.

You'll have to excuse Mallardsx2, he's a chronic NR whiner...

 

[Mallardsx2]

Makes sense that what is essentially a depredation hunt is only open to residents. Typically they're not given much notice as to when they're needed, and usually occurs later in the season when weather can make travel difficult. They're not going to call a guy in Waterloo, IA to try and take a couple elk off a hay field in SW Montana.

And God forbid if they did! lol

 

[TN_Rifle_Junkie]

I am finding it hard to believe this is a 11 point (NR) draw on a OVER POPULATION hunt area. Great job Wyoming. If they wanted more elk to be harvested, they should give out more tags. 90/10 split.

 

[jtm307]

I am finding it hard to believe this is a 11 point (NR) draw on a OVER POPULATION hunt area. Great job Wyoming. If they wanted more elk to be harvested, they should give out more tags. 90/10 split.

See comment #17.
More tags =\= more elk killed.

 

[Mallardsx2]

What other option do they have than to give the landowners even more tags so they can turn around and sell them as trespass hunts? Plus the landowners got rewarded with $70,000 for loss of hay. So its a win win here. They get rewarded for their loss and they can sell hunts on their land. It just sounds like a pretty good gig other than having to go mend a few fences once a week.

Landowners don't want to fully open their properties for Walk in hunting simply because there is no money in it for them like there is if they can just get the tags and sell cow elk hunts for $2500 a pop...Falling right in line with the Wyoming pay to play model.

Meanwhile, boooo hoooo hoooo all the residents cry "We aren't getting enough tags, 90/10, 90/10, 90/10!"

And half of the people crying the loudest live in downtown Laramie on .25 acres and this is happening in their back yard and they cant even get on the ranches to help fix the problem. But when you accuse the large ranch owners for being greedy and collecting a check while profiting from the ENTIRE situation it seems like every person from Laramie with .25 acres comes to their rescue on the forums. lol

 

[Treeshark]

I’ve reconsidered, you guys are right. My ideas were way too simple, and if we’ve learned anything it’s that simple solutions never work as well as complicated ones.

Wyoming should train and develop an elite force of super predator hunters to exterminate these vermin elk taking refuge only on private land. This elite group must be made up of residents only, of course- this mission would be far too dangerous for anyone else. It’s the only way.

 

[Mustangs Rule]

I’ve reconsidered, you guys are right. My ideas were way too simple, and if we’ve learned anything it’s that simple solutions never work as well as complicated ones.

Wyoming should train and develop an elite force of super predator hunters to exterminate these vermin elk taking refuge only on private land. This elite group must be made up of residents only, of course- this mission would be far too dangerous for anyone else. It’s the only way.

This elk problem exists in many western states and on the "too many urban deer level" in many eastern states as well.
Even when communities were overun with Lymes disease carrying deer, and people had a super high % of this diease, having teams of specuialy trained urban archers was met with such fierce anti-hunter resistance that it could not happen.

In the end people just put up deer proof fences, and that is what i am seeing some big ranchers doing where i live, 8' high elk proof fences.

Most ranchers do not want people/hunters on their land anyway, and once the elk get hunted they just go somewhere where they are left alone and gather in mega herds there.

During the early years of the Vietnam war when France still thought they would get "their colony" back, combat in the valuable rubber tree plantations was not allowed, so the Vietcong fighters just used them as a safe R and R locations.

I have hunted cow elk on land owner tags in Utah. It kinda works well sometimes. The land owners photgraph the elk herds on thier land and they get what is figured to be 10% of the herd number in cow tags, but those tags are onlly good for the actual ranch.

The elk soon only come at night to graze then spend the day elsewhere, like adjacent National Forest or BLM where they cannot be hunted, or another ranch where hunting is not happening.

There really is no functinal solution. Sooner or later there wil be a Chronic wasting disease epidemic.

When I ived in Wyoming there was no CWD at all. Now in some places it is over 40% in deer and was less in elk, but with these mega herds the CWD levels and hoof rot levels will just keep rising and spreading.

These situations are inevitable without natural predators constantly culing the herds and breaking them up into smaller groups. As human hunters there is no way we can hunt deer and elk enoungh when they have safe hideouts, and there is no way predators could fit in anymore,,,so we must just bear witness to this willdlife tradgedy which plays out in so many ways.

There is ony so much feed for wild hoofed animals anywhere anyway anymore, so all these excess elk dramaticlly reduce the number of deer too.

 

[Deleted member 16014]

What other option do they have than to give the landowners even more tags so they can turn around and sell them as trespass hunts? Plus the landowners got rewarded with $70,000 for loss of hay. So its a win win here. They get rewarded for their loss and they can sell hunts on their land. It just sounds like a pretty good gig other than having to go mend a few fences once a week.

Landowners don't want to fully open their properties for Walk in hunting simply because there is no money in it for them like there is if they can just get the tags and sell cow elk hunts for $2500 a pop...Falling right in line with the Wyoming pay to play model.

Meanwhile, boooo hoooo hoooo all the residents cry "We aren't getting enough tags, 90/10, 90/10, 90/10!"

And half of the people crying the loudest live in downtown Laramie on .25 acres and this is happening in their back yard and they cant even get on the ranches to help fix the problem. But when you accuse the large ranch owners for being greedy and collecting a check while profiting from the ENTIRE situation it seems like every person from Laramie with .25 acres comes to their rescue on the forums. lol

There are huge numbers of cow tags already available in these units.

Please explain:
A)How passing out transferable bull tags will markedly reduce the population.
B)How passing out transferable bull tags will incentivize landowners to reduce elk populations.

 

[nrpate05]

Maybe WGFD and the landowners should just hire the HUSH crew to come down and clean out the elk. They're the slickest hunters I know. It'll be a hard sell to only allow them to take cows, but then again, if they are promised a few shed hunting opportunities in the spring I could see HUSH jumping right on board.

 

[BuzzH]

What other option do they have than to give the landowners even more tags so they can turn around and sell them as trespass hunts? Plus the landowners got rewarded with $70,000 for loss of hay. So its a win win here. They get rewarded for their loss and they can sell hunts on their land. It just sounds like a pretty good gig other than having to go mend a few fences once a week.

Landowners don't want to fully open their properties for Walk in hunting simply because there is no money in it for them like there is if they can just get the tags and sell cow elk hunts for $2500 a pop...Falling right in line with the Wyoming pay to play model.

Meanwhile, boooo hoooo hoooo all the residents cry "We aren't getting enough tags, 90/10, 90/10, 90/10!"

And half of the people crying the loudest live in downtown Laramie on .25 acres and this is happening in their back yard and they cant even get on the ranches to help fix the problem. But when you accuse the large ranch owners for being greedy and collecting a check while profiting from the ENTIRE situation it seems like every person from Laramie with .25 acres comes to their rescue on the forums. lol

You don't know what you're talking about, and your jealousy is duly noted.

Wyoming hunters and even the legislature here have no stomach for transferable LO tags.

You're also wrong about no other options existing. My buddies from ND gained access to a ranch that charges 3K for a cow hunt and well over 10K for bull hunts. They hunted there for free and killed these:

Couple cows for good measure, and 5 elk dead and loaded in the truck by 2 PM.

This all happened by simply cooperating with a landowner, NOT by giving them transferable tags.

Another thing that I've been talking to the Commission about, is offering hunters that draw a cow, or bull permit, and gain access to these harbored herds, the ability to purchase an additional antlerless tag. The difficult part is gaining access to the ranches that harbor elk, once a hunter has that access, often times killing 1-3 elk per hunter is not an issue (see above for proof of that).

For those doubting that there are people that know what they're doing when it comes to killing elk, its just a fact. I've hunted with my ND friends for the last 4 seasons, between the 3 of them, they've held 15 elk tags, and I've helped them fill 14 of them with the one guy simply choosing not to fill his second tag last year (not because he didn't have multiple chances to). After helping these guys the last couple years, they really no longer need my help. They are good shots, they have good equipment and were quick studies in elk hunting. I enjoy hunting with them so will continue to do so, including having some scouting done when they show up.

Like it or not, there's just not many people that know how to kill elk consistently.

We need a program that allows those that know how to get it done to assist the landowners and mentor less experienced hunters. Access to these elk is the key, and like I already said, many landowners simply don't want to fling their gates open to everybody. Many have no problems allowing those they gain trust in to hunt and kill elk, in particular cows.

We're also looking at ways to keep elk on existing HMA properties by modifying a few things that I'm sure would work. We have options available and will continue to build out new ways to get more elk killed.

So, while your post was a nice rant, it holds zero merit and is counter to what we're doing in Wyoming.

 

[Dougfirtree]

Me sitting next to Buzz when it's time to take the expert elk hunter test...

 

[ccc23454]

I still think first thing is convert units to general. How many friends, neighbors and employees would now be able to hunt private properties every year. To me this simply puts tags in the hands of the right hunters quickest. I know MANY elk hunters who buy there tag just before season and hunt generals every year as they dont want to deal with the draw, and lets just say they do well. I know things are significantly different up in my part of state but often the simplest solution is where to start.

Added: if you really wanted to keep a LE tag, convert it to a -1 late hunt

 

[BuzzH]

I still think first thing is convert units to general. How many friends, neighbors and employees would now be able to hunt private properties every year. To me this simply puts tags in the hands of the right hunters quickest. I know MANY elk hunters who buy there tag just before season and hunt generals every year as they dont want to deal with the draw, and lets just say they do well. I know things are significantly different up in my part of state but often the simplest solution is where to start.

Added: if you really wanted to keep a LE tag, convert it to a -1 late hunt

Going general will make things worse in the Laramie Range and will result in many current places that allow elk hunting via the HMA program to bail and start charging.

More pressure via general tags will move elk to the places they aren't accessible sooner, as in most will be on inaccessible private by the time archery season closes, if not sooner. Its already happened in unit 6 when if converted to general and they aren't killing any more elk now than then when it was limited quota.

Your idea of going general would work in units that are mostly public, but don't work in areas with 50% or more private (like the Laramie Range).

The only upside is that my normal general elk hunting areas would be very good hunting as everyone would flock to the Laramie Range.

 

[ccc23454]

Going general will make things worse in the Laramie Range and will result in many current places that allow elk hunting via the HMA program to bail and start charging.

More pressure via general tags will move elk to the places they aren't accessible sooner, as in most will be on inaccessible private by the time archery season closes, if not sooner. Its already happened in unit 6 when if converted to general and they aren't killing any more elk now than then when it was limited quota.

Your idea of going general would work in units that are mostly public, but don't work in areas with 50% or more private (like the Laramie Range).

The only upside is that my normal general elk hunting areas would be very good hunting as everyone would flock to the Laramie Range.

I hold a completely opposite view of what you think would happen on all four of your points. So much so, that i will not even argue them with you.

So in review the land between the two largest cities in the state has a significant overpopulation of elk, is more than half privately owned couldnt benefit from more tags going to people who live and work on those very same properties...ok

 

[brocksw]

They're not going to call a guy in Waterloo, IA to try and take a couple elk off a hay field in SW Montana.

MT called Jersey Greg though....

 

[WYelker]

I hold a completely opposite view of what you think would happen on all four of your points. So much so, that i will not even argue them with you.

So in review the land between the two largest cities in the state has a significant overpopulation of elk, is more than half privately owned couldnt benefit from more tags going to people who live and work on those very same properties...ok

HAHA. I am pretty sure I knew you in high school. You acted like a bad ass but never ended up in a fight because you ran away?

So please share your claims? Do we currently have a lack of cow elk hunting and tags in this area? In most cases there appears to be lots of cow tags in these areas, enough that the land owners families and friends can already draw....

 

[BuzzH]

HAHA. I am pretty sure I knew you in high school. You acted like a bad ass but never ended up in a fight because you ran away?

So please share your claims? Do we currently have a lack of cow elk hunting and tags in this area? In most cases there appears to be lots of cow tags in these areas, enough that the land owners families and friends can already draw....

Correct. Access to tags is not an issue in the Laramie Range, its access to the harbored elk that is the problem. That, and keeping those elk on places that are accessible.

Going general is, at best, not going to improve a thing...and most likely make it worse.