To protect eagles, hunters and conservationists rebuild old alliances (non-lead ammo)

[RealMuddyboots]

Just another reason why food pantries feeding the poor will only accept venison from archery hunters who prove this by showing their tags.

Interesting but not where I live. Another grandiose statement associated with lead.

So what about copper? Copper is death to aquatic organisms. Studies can be designed to achieve whatever result you choose. CDC has proven that in past couple years.

What I would like to see is a study that utilizes all types of cup and core bullets as well as copper monos instead of lumping all of them in one category. Bonded cup and core lead bullets do not fragment like standard soft point or ballistic tip style bullets. So let's have a real practical study that incorporates all styles of bullets instead of taking a worse case scenario and apply it across the board to all products. That is true science of a study to determine results from each subject category. The study needs to incorporate all levels of velocity from different cartridges.

So if we are having discussion on effects of bullets on game and environment, we need to stop using steel belted tires and brakes on our vehicles. Tire debris sheding heavy metals to environment or how about wear debris from brake friction materials? All of this is discharging into aquatic waterways far more damaging than lead bullets.

So understand if you are taking a position that lead in environment is strictly from bullets, nope, no even remotely significant in comparison from other

 

[Mustangs Rule]

Interesting but not where I live. Another grandiose statement associated with lead.

So what about copper? Copper is death to aquatic organisms. Studies can be designed to achieve whatever result you choose. CDC has proven that in past couple years.

What I would like to see is a study that utilizes all types of cup and core bullets as well as copper monos instead of lumping all of them in one category. Bonded cup and core lead bullets do not fragment like standard soft point or ballistic tip style bullets. So let's have a real practical study that incorporates all styles of bullets instead of taking a worse case scenario and apply it across the board to all products. That is true science of a study to determine results from each subject category. The study needs to incorporate all levels of velocity from different cartridges.

So if we are having discussion on effects of bullets on game and environment, we need to stop using steel belted tires and brakes on our vehicles. Tire debris sheding heavy metals to environment or how about wear debris from brake friction materials? All of this is discharging into aquatic waterways far more damaging than lead bullets.

So understand if you are taking a position that lead in environment is strictly from bullets, nope, no even remotely significant in comparison from other

I think your response is just amazing. It is a collection of every form of denial on this issue. It could be, should be used as a textbook example of a cocktail of confusing "what aboutism" ideas created to avoid looking at this very simple issue of the continued effects spreading the world's most omnipresent neurotoxin into the environment.

I cannot imagine that you have examined the research which is available not just here in America but also in Canada, South America, Europe, Africa and even Japan where their eagles began getting lead poisoned from lead from bullets.
And the lead from bullets has it's own unique chemistry which positively identifies it source.

 

[Mustangs Rule]

https://www.thedodo.com/bald-eagle-ammunition-refuges-2306402071.html

 

[Eric Albus]

What do you think the caused the high level? Ingestion of meat, handling lead, or something else?

This thread is mostly if not totally a troll. Ban lead, don’t log, electric cars, wind/solar energy will save us.

 

[The Hedgehog]

https://www.thedodo.com/bald-eagle-ammunition-refuges-2306402071.html

Screw those bald eagles. They're not much different than magpies.

 

[TheTone]

Screw those bald eagles. They're not much different than magpies.

They make for an easy way to find a dead critter

 

[BucksnDucks]

https://www.thedodo.com/bald-eagle-ammunition-refuges-2306402071.html

maybe pick a new poster child. https://www.fws.gov/story/2021-03/americas-bald-eagle-population-continues-soar

 

[The Hedgehog]

Should be a daily limit on them, about like that of doves.

 

[BrentD]

Should be a daily limit on them, about like that of doves.

why?

 

[The Hedgehog]

why?

You've never tried eagle breast?

 

[BrentD]

You've never tried eagle breast?

You?

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I stand with @rational_redneck

 

[RealMuddyboots]

So when the leading research clearly states "we did not analyze the fragments in the tissue to differentiate whether lead or copper in the fragments" is IMO piss poor research. If you are publishing a paper that has such significant repercussions, perform the damn due diligence of all possible outcomes. Stating assumptions without data is complete research garbage. Its irrelevant if it might be true, a true research scientist will follow ALL avenues to fully close ALL potential outcomes.

FYI I shoot copper but I truly DESPISE poor research from Government agencies. I've seen enough of it in 40+ years in Environmental field.

 

[TheTone]

I stand with @rational_redneck

 

[The Hedgehog]

https://instagram.com/eagle_eradication_alliance?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

 

[nordeast]

Eagles are probably a bigger menace to ungulates than even wolves…

#killaneaglesaveabighorn

 

[sapperJ24]

First lead is NOT a confirmed human carcinogen, it is classified by IARC International Agency for Research on Cancer (Agency that classifies ALL carcinogens accepted WORLDWIDE) classifies lead as 2B which means possible human carcinogen. Now understand this classification is weak since lead has been studied WORLDWIDE for over hundred years. When a MSD is written in the USA, classifications of carcinigenocity is based upon IARC. You cannot equivocally state lead is a carcinogen since there are no legitimate accepted epidemeological studies proving out this connection thus "possible" is stated. If there was a confirmed link, it would be class 1 and it is not so at this time. A Class 2A is still "probable" and not absolute.

Being classified in CA as one is not based on science just politics of Prop 65. Hell CA classifies many compounds as carcinogen which are scientifically not so.

Is lead potentially toxic? Yes but for different reasons not carcinogenic. Let's use real science not CDC type BS unscience propoganda.

Recently, there was a movement to ban lead cannonballs for downrigger trolling. Please show me any animal that can ingest a 10 lb cannonball.

Also realize lead solder has been used for over 100 years in drinking water copper pipe brazing so there is plenty of study opportunity that has not proven a carcinogenic link.

Really hesitate to comment here but, oh well. So someone mentioned lead is a carcinogen, but lets not downplay it's negative effects and pretend lead isn't harmful.

Lead is a neurotoxin which has pronounced impacts on younger people. There is no potential, just is toxic.

I'm guessing you aren't interested in any studies by the WHO or NIH either.

 

[longbow51]

I use copper bullets, just hate biased research.

Health Risks of Lead in Venison: Gray Toxin or Red Herring? | Deer & Deer Hunting

Find out if bird biologists' concerns about the effects of lead in venison on human health are legitimate or just an effort to save birds.

www.deeranddeerhunting.com

 

[RealMuddyboots]

Look lets be absolutely clear, I recognize and concur with lead health toxicity. What I despise is piss poor research touted. We can agree its not a carcinogen. This paper would never make it out in private sector for incomplete validation of the premise. Seriously, making statement not performing very basic lab analytical analysis of the fragments is absurd. The chemical analysis of the fragments is the absolute confirmation and its not done? This isn't expensive high tech lab work, hell, high schoolers can do the work. So why in hell the most definable confirmation of the premise wasn't done?

Science depends upon complete work not this half ass assumptions which should have been taken to completion.

 

[Mustangs Rule]

So when the leading research clearly states "we did not analyze the fragments in the tissue to differentiate whether lead or copper in the fragments" is IMO piss poor research. If you are publishing a paper that has such significant repercussions, perform the damn due diligence of all possible outcomes. Stating assumptions without data is complete research garbage. Its irrelevant if it might be true, a true research scientist will follow ALL avenues to fully close ALL potential outcomes.

FYI I shoot copper but I truly DESPISE poor research from Government agencies. I've seen enough of it in 40+ years in Environmental field.

i am not at all sure what and where you are referring to in your first sentence regarding fragments. Please give me a source.

Also referring to anything as "piss poor" totally undermines your integrity. It is adolescent but to your credit you are steps above the dark comments made about eagles by others here.

And where those comments go is right into the antihunting, antigun websites. Ultimately, they are building a case against hunters, hunting and firearms.

Look how close votes are now.