To Hot Tent or to Bivy?

[Fire_9]

So have you ever done a backpack hunt before? I don’t know anything about you guys or your abilities, but I would probably look at a good base camp setup before I looked into a good backpacking setup. I think you’ll be able to hunt more efficiently from a good basecamp than backpacking in for 10 days if it’s your first time. I’m far from what I would consider a hardcore or badass backpack hunter but I’ve been on my fair share of tough hunts and I think 10 days would be tough to accomplish for your first time. Not trying to be a downer but it’s not as easy as people think. Especially being your first time.

But to answer your question, for three guys a hot tent is the way to go in my opinion. Don’t rely on the stove to keep you warm as they have short burn times so plan accordingly with your sleeping bag. I would go a minimum of a 6 man tipi and would lean hard towards the 8. I have a 6 man seek outside and it gets tight with three guys, a stove, and wood. Make sure you set it up several times and burn the stove before you go. On the side of mountain is not the place to learn the ins and outs of your gear.

 

[Jc2020]

If you do decide to go with a luxe tent you might have to wait awhile to get it I ordered the luxe twin peak hot tent about a month ago and it said the expected ship date is 8/29 so not sure if this is all their products or just the one I got.

 

[MITCHMO]

I was faced with the same dilemma. I now have two tents, both with a stove jack. I have a 2 man for myself, and a bigger Redcliff for a group. Why not just buy a tent that can handle a wood stove if you want it? Then You always have a choice. Most tents that can handle a stove are really nice and light regardless. I even customized my tent so I could have a stove and a liner on half the tent. So 1/2 is floorless. Best of both worlds.

I just setup my Redcliff in the yard last weekend and it was completely frosted inside because it was 18 deg and on grass. After 30 min with a fire, the frost was gone almost to the ground. I let the fire burn out, and the frost was back in the morning. It started to almost snow on my sleeping bag and everything was a little damp. Started a fire and it all dried back out.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I just setup my Redcliff in the yard last weekend and it was completely frosted inside because it was 18 deg and on grass. After 30 min with a fire, the frost was gone almost to the ground. I let the fire burn out, and the frost was back in the morning. It started to almost snow on my sleeping bag and everything was a little damp. Started a fire and it all dried back out.

I tent camped on two separate hunts this year down to -2 (Late Nov and Jan). Nothing got damp. The temp diff from the stove heating the air and cooling is what cases a lot of moisture problems.

Hot tents can be great for certain hunting styles, they also totally suck for others. I've hunted in a number of places where a floor-less and/or tipi style tent would suck.

My recommendation would be to buy a good traditional floored tent, good pad, good bag. This setup is the most beginner friendly and idiot proof, it's also the most versatile.
I would go:
Hilleberg (Best-Most expensive)
MSR/Big Agnes (Good tent - Medium cost)
Sierra Designs/North Face (Still good tents, heavier - best price)

Thing to keep in mind for the OP, I would bet you $100 none of the guys on this thread who are recommending hot tents started off backpacking with them. Will I probably get one at some point, probably... an 8 man, and I would use in on trips with pack stock or if I'm planning a base camp style hunt.

 

[kwyeewyk]

I've done a lot of cold weather camping during late seasons, 95% of it with no form of heat. One year I hunted with a friend and he had a small stove and a tipi tarp set up. I did enjoy the dry warmth of the stove in the evening, and being able to take the layers off and let muscles relax. But I did also feel a little spoiled and we definitely spent more time messing with fire wood etc. If you start a fire in the morning you'll be a lot more likely to waste time in camp. I know a couple other guys who use hot tents regularly, they've all got a ton of backcountry and general hunting experience, and are very meticulous planners and have a system down for everything. They are also doing 7-14 day trips. I wouldn't consider carrying a stove unless I was expecting temps to be 10 or less at night for the whole trip.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

If you start a fire in the morning you'll be a lot more likely to waste time in camp.

 

[Fire_9]

Thing to keep in mind for the OP, I would bet you $100 none of the guys on this thread who are recommending hot tents started off backpacking with them.

I most definitely didn’t start out with one but I can think of several trips where I wish I would have had one. They’re not the answer to every situation but they definitely have their purpose

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I most definitely didn’t start out with one but I can think of several trips where I wish I would have had one. They’re not the answer to every situation but they definitely have their purpose

I'd put them in the same category with 4 wheelers, they definitely have their place.

 

[pre6422hornet]

I most definitely didn’t start out with one but I can think of several trips where I wish I would have had one. They’re not the answer to every situation but they definitely have their purpose

Exactly what I was thinking.

Also I would have to say that if I was camping next to the truck than forgo a stove and use the truck for heat if needed. I have dried out my outer layers numerous times in the truck cab over the years when camping next to it. Backpacking in on a 5-10 day hunt is where I am feeling I really like my stove. Just this past fall in NM 3 miles from truck we left the tent before sunrise, came back after dark. It was 25 degrees and falling with heavy wind. Water in the tipee had already half froze in the Nalgenes. Stoked up a fire and within 5 minutes we were sitting in the tipee peeling off layers and thawing out. It was nice to have it.

 

[Fire_9]

I'd put them in the same category with 4 wheelers, they definitely have their place.

A 4 wheeler isn’t what is going to keep me in the hunt. A warm shelter to spend an hour or two in before I go to bed might though. We obviously have different views on this and that’s to be expected. To each their own

 

[thusby]

Spent a night at -27 this year without any heat. Rolled around a lot trying to sleep but still managed a few winks. We survived and it wasn't terrible but I needed an hour long nap the next day once it warmed up a bit. Spent a night at -18 with a titanium stove, and it was downright enjoyable. Then spent a night at 0 with a stove and it was too damn warm.

 

[Mainewoods]

Exactly what I was thinking.

Also I would have to say that if I was camping next to the truck than forgo a stove and use the truck for heat if needed. I have dried out my outer layers numerous times in the truck cab over the years when camping next to it. Backpacking in on a 5-10 day hunt is where I am feeling I really like my stove. Just this past fall in NM 3 miles from truck we left the tent before sunrise, came back after dark. It was 25 degrees and falling with heavy wind. Water in the tipee had already half froze in the Nalgenes. Stoked up a fire and within 5 minutes we were sitting in the tipee peeling off layers and thawing out. It was nice to have it.

Camping next to the truck seems like the perfect time in my opinion, to have a hot tent.

 

[ntodwild]

Thing to keep in mind for the OP, I would bet you $100 none of the guys on this thread who are recommending hot tents started off backpacking with them. Will I probably get one at some point, probably... an 8 man, and I would use in on trips with pack stock or if I'm planning a base camp style hunt.

As many of you know I have explored many of the pros and cons of single wall tents/light weight shelters on several of the threads on this forum. Disclaimer (I LIVE AND HUNT IN THE NW WHERE THINGS ARE DAMP IN ALMOST EVERY SEASON OTHER THAN SUMMER). Ive gone back and forth on the weight savings, heat retention, condensation, setup and just over all practicality and just have not been able to convince myself even for a large basecamp or pack in spike camp. Floorless tents are a very tuff thing here in the NW because of condensation issues 3 months out of the year and the 4th month is a rodent, bug and bee fest. I just have not been able to convince myself they are worth the few lbs. of savings. On that note I have Never used one so I have no real experience. The closest I have ever come were a few summers of "ultralight" pacific crest trail 72mile trips in my younger years using a tarp and bivy sack under perfect mountain weather and even then I had my issues with the setup (mostly got eaton alive by mosquitos). Nothing is perfect under every condition and my exploration of the pros and cons is "solely based around weight savings" as the primary goal for switching. In the end I just have not been able to justify the few lbs I would save over some of the cons. Specially considering I have 10lbs my body can shed. I honestly believe if I lived in a dryer mountain climate I would be all over an ultralight single wall setup stove or no stove. Honestly I think much of this really depends on where you live and play most, so this is surely not a hit on single wall ultralight tents. There is no doubt they have their place and I have not been able to convince myself they are the way to go here in the NW even as much as I would like them to be.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

A 4 wheeler isn’t what is going to keep me in the hunt.

I think it's a fair comparison, people would stay that it does others that it doesn't.

It's a great task specific tool but not versatile.

 

[Jc2020]

My 2 cents go with a hot tent for the extra comfort of the stove as I said earlier I went with the luxe twin peak hot tent you can order it with the inner tent and have an area screened in with a floor and still have a light weight tent that only takes two trekking poles and stakes to set up but also comes with a stove jack Incase you want to bring a stove and has room for multiple guys and gear this will be my first backpack hunt this year but I’ve done tons of cold weather camping and spent years in the light infantry. Doing field exercises in the winter and rucking in and sleeping in a military sleep system with out any tent and we got by but there was a lot of it that did suck and wished we would of had tents with a stove

 

[Phaseolus]

September? Bivy, yes

Later? Not for me without a hot tent. Obviously you could hit wam weather later and I have bivy hunted into mid November. If it was wet and cold I would use my other equipment including a lightweight stove. A stoove wouldn’t take the place of an appropriate sleeping bag under any circumstances. If you are new to backpacking you are on a step learning curve.

 

[theat]

As many of you know I have explored many of the pros and cons of single wall tents/light weight shelters on several of the threads on this forum. Disclaimer (I LIVE AND HUNT IN THE NW WHERE THINGS ARE DAMP IN ALMOST EVERY SEASON OTHER THAN SUMMER). Ive gone back and forth on the weight savings, heat retention, condensation, setup and just over all practicality and just have not been able to convince myself even for a large basecamp or pack in spike camp. Floorless tents are a very tuff thing here in the NW because of condensation issues 3 months out of the year and the 4th month is a rodent, bug and bee fest. I just have not been able to convince myself they are worth the few lbs. of savings. On that note I have Never used one so I have no real experience. The closest I have ever come were a few summers of "ultralight" pacific crest trail 72mile trips in my younger years using a tarp and bivy sack under perfect mountain weather and even then I had my issues with the setup (mostly got eaton alive by mosquitos). Nothing is perfect under every condition and my exploration of the pros and cons is "solely based around weight savings" as the primary goal for switching. In the end I just have not been able to justify the few lbs I would save over some of the cons. Specially considering I have 10lbs my body can shed. I honestly believe if I lived in a dryer mountain climate I would be all over an ultralight single wall setup stove or no stove. Honestly I think much of this really depends on where you live and play most so this is surely not a hit on single wall ultralight tents. There is no doubt they have their place and I have not been able to convince myself they are the way to go here in the NW even as much as I would like them to be.

Where I live has a pretty similar climate. I feel very lucky if I am out all day and I don't get rained or snowed on for at least an hour or two during hunting season. That is the exact reason why I love my tipi and stove. Before I got my current setup, I spent many a miserable morning putting on frozen clothes and boots. It is unbelievable how much more peasant it is to wake up and fire up my stove, let it warm up a bit then prep for the day in a comfortable warm glow. I have found that I hunt harder and my mind is in the game more when I go to bed dry and warm and wake up dry and warm. My tipi and stove weigh less than my older 2/3 man backpacking tents. I use a sheet of tyvek for a ground cloth when the ground is wet or snow covered and if it is just me or the conditions are dry I use an ultra lightweight tarp that is just big enough for my sleeping pad to sit on. Haven't had much more of an issue with moisture buildup than I get in a regular tent, and the moisture goes away pretty quick once the stove is going whereas it never goes away in my regular tents in the usual conditions around here. For the early season when bugs are an issue, I had a local seamstress sow a 4" sod skirt around the base of my tipi. That was I can seal the base down to the ground with rocks, sticks and dirt. I actually have an interior floor/liner for the tipi but since the sod skirt seals it up pretty good, I haven't felt the need to use it yet.

 

[tomengineer]

Have you done much backpacking?
As a rookie backpacker/backpack hunter myself, the hot tent just seems like it could be a lot of extra headaches.
If everyone brought their own tents and descent bags it would make it possible to split up and bivy if you found a spot you like.
I just spent 1 night in a tent on the snow and 3 nights in a bivy sack in the bed of my truck with a Klymit V 5 pad and a 30 degree NF bag inside a 0 degree ozark trail (Walmart) bag in the low 20’s in Montana and it was pretty cozy.

No I haven’t done very much backpacking. Especially not in the Rockies. Thanks for the insight.

 

[tomengineer]

September? Bivy, yes

Later? Not for me without a hot tent. Obviously you could hit wam weather later and I have bivy hunted into mid November. If it was wet and cold I would use my other equipment including a lightweight stove. A stoove wouldn’t take the place of an appropriate sleeping bag under any circumstances. If you are new to backpacking you are on a step learning curve.

Yes I’m on a learning curve for sure. Thanks for the input

 

[tomengineer]

Here are the thoughts I would share.

1. How much backpack hunting have you done? My experience has led me to believe that personal preferences can vary widely as to what you want to carry and need to be comfortable; both of which will effect your efficiency hunting.

2. If you invest in that system, will the other two guys always be there to carry their share, or will there be a time when you are solo, or hunting with someone else all together. In some ways it is nice to start with a system you can carry and sustain yourself solo, and maybe you can do that with some of the new superlight hot-tents.

3. There is a pretty significant difference between early season archery elk and later season rifle hunting out of a backpack, I might try and find some resources to listen to that speak more directly to what you are looking to do. They get into a lot of this type of stuff, and specifically talk gear a lot on the Kifarucast podcast, I don't listen to it much, but I have perused their past episodes looking for specific info.

4. Being able to dry clothes and boots is huge come late season, so I agree that the hot tent is a great way to go. I think you just need to be aware of the logistics that come with it.

Ok awesome thanks for the advice. I’ll check out that podcast.