Thoughts on this bailout and “stimulus”?

[1_pointer]

I thought this was an interesting economic take:

Normal is not an option | askblog

The challenges for other countries will be much more difficult. De-globalization is taking place, and that will produce losers and bigger losers (it won’t produce many winners). Become familiar with Peter Zeihan’s way of viewing the world. Don’t take the international order for granted. Zeihan emphasizes that the U.S. is one of the few countries that produces enough food and energy for itself. China, on the other hand, needs to import both. That would lead one to predict that China will be in the “bigger loser” category.

I've long contended that our ability to produce food is the best card we have always had in our hand!

 

[buckbull]

That's because we're two bad ass mofo's who haven't changed sweatpants in a week. #Livinlarge #shelterinplace #sociallydistant #hoyt

You forgot #KeepHammering.

 

[BigHornRam]

I thought this was an interesting economic take:

Normal is not an option | askblog

The challenges for other countries will be much more difficult. De-globalization is taking place, and that will produce losers and bigger losers (it won’t produce many winners). Become familiar with Peter Zeihan’s way of viewing the world. Don’t take the international order for granted. Zeihan emphasizes that the U.S. is one of the few countries that produces enough food and energy for itself. China, on the other hand, needs to import both. That would lead one to predict that China will be in the “bigger loser” category.

For those that have been paying attention, this isn't news. U S has been thbe healthiest pig in the pen for some time. Also the fattest.

 

[BigHornRam]

I've long contended that our ability to produce food is the best card we have always had in our hand!

Bread basket of the world. When you get down to the basic necessities, you figure out what is truly important.

 

[SAJ-99]

I thought this was an interesting economic take:

Normal is not an option | askblog

The challenges for other countries will be much more difficult. De-globalization is taking place, and that will produce losers and bigger losers (it won’t produce many winners). Become familiar with Peter Zeihan’s way of viewing the world. Don’t take the international order for granted. Zeihan emphasizes that the U.S. is one of the few countries that produces enough food and energy for itself. China, on the other hand, needs to import both. That would lead one to predict that China will be in the “bigger loser” category.

It's interesting, but I will take the other side of that bet.

 

[mplane72]

I thought this was an interesting economic take:

Normal is not an option | askblog

The challenges for other countries will be much more difficult. De-globalization is taking place, and that will produce losers and bigger losers (it won’t produce many winners). Become familiar with Peter Zeihan’s way of viewing the world. Don’t take the international order for granted. Zeihan emphasizes that the U.S. is one of the few countries that produces enough food and energy for itself. China, on the other hand, needs to import both. That would lead one to predict that China will be in the “bigger loser” category.

I have long been at the crappy end of people's 'lean manufacturing' or "just in time deliveries". 2 days ago I had a customer just crying for immediate delivery of their order they just put in and would normally have a 2week lead time. Rearranged everything to help them out. They called today to put the balance of the order on hold because they're shutting down.

I am hoping to see at least some change after we get through this. At least for things that really matter. I am not holding my breath.

 

[TheDudeAbides]

$14/hr translates to a $28,000 salary. That isn't even a living wage by most standards. Telling someone they can work 80hr/wk and make $56k isn't really a solution. This is the problem economists have been trying to solve for the last decade. You want people to make enough money to have some discretionary income to spend on other things, and have the time to spend it.

Which is why UBI makes sense.

If you gave $1,000 a month then a 14/hr job pays 50k a year. 28k Job + 12k UBI = 50k a year

There is no reason in the world to tax someone only making 14/hr they need the money more than the fed or state.

 

[TheDudeAbides]

Yes through requiring permits and ensuring adherence to codes. You want to buy a house where the builder was "winging it". That still happens.
I would argue that we are already mostly Socialist. The bailouts and checks that were the topic of this thread are just supporting evidence. Not saying I love the idea, but I'm not moving to another country anytime soon.

I don't think I would go as far to say we are socialist or close to it.

Socialism is when society owns the means of production.

We are in a global economy and some of the means of production are over seas.

Society doesn't own those means of production over seas and even individual businesses in the country are not owned by society.

They are owned by the business owners.

Laws and Regulations are in place a lot of times by lagging indicators rather than leading indicators.

Economically we are closer to a free market than a socialist market.

Social services in some cases ran by non profit companies as well. Planned Parenthood, United Way, Habitat for Humanity, Gates Foundation, Rocky Mountain Elk, NRA, etc

The society or leaders in society would run all of those programs.

You would have no choice, but to contribute to these programs because it is the best interest of society.

 

[antlerradar]

I too learned the basics of Macro economic about 30yrs ago. This was at a time where "recent history" included the Baby Boomers at their peak earning power and peak spending. Things have changed and we know now that the tax multiplier for the individual is not stable. A lot of politics is involved in interpreting the tax multiplier because the person doing the analysis gets to pick the sample time period. The way I view this is to remember that the government doesn't collect taxes and set the money on fire. It spends it. It gives it to soldiers who raise families, it pays interest on debt that is the holders income, it pays for medical services. All that money gets recirculated into the economy, but at a fairly predictable pace. The individual bases "recirculation" decision on their own circumstances. A check from the government is larger and immediate and is more likely to help through tough period. A tax cut only helps those who still have an income and haven't been laid off. In both circumstances, if the individual is worried about their job, the money is going to be saved rather than spent. In summary, a $1000 over 52 weeks is about $20/wk, but a $1000 check is now. The two are viewed differently by the recipient. In this economic environment, we can predict that the individual multiplier has decreased due to fear - and all the closures - and the government multiplier is much higher.

Back in the day when I use to grade freshman economics papers some students would twist the rules of economics to fit there political preferences.

 

[BigHornRam]

It's interesting, but I will take the other side of that bet.

I'll bet the US comes out of this a skinny smarter pig and China comes out a dead pig.

 

[tjones]

I figured the Bernie haters would just send the $1200 back since most are anti free stuff and all.


**By no means should this be considered a political post. No party was harmed or endorsed in typing of this post. Mostly Friday afternoon and nothing productive to do.

 

[Ben Lamb]

I'll bet the US comes out of this a skinny smarter pig and China comes out a dead pig.

Buddy, we're hording toilet paper and hand sanitizer while making grandma suffer the consequences of their grandkids insisting on going on spring break.

We're gonna be lucky to just come out of this at all.

 

[BigHornRam]

Buddy, we're hording toilet paper and hand sanitizer while making grandma suffer the consequences of their grandkids insisting on going on spring break.

We're gonna be lucky to just come out of this at all.

I dont know anyone hoarding anything. Do you? Probably the same 10% group of knuckleheads that throw their beer cans in the ditch.

 

[Trial153]

unfortunately after this is all said and done the smart people will still be smart and dumb people will still be dumb, the pie might be smaller but it will sliced up in the same proportions.

 

[SAJ-99]

Back in the day when I use to grade freshman economics papers some students would twist the rules of economics to fit there political preferences.

Some things never change. In most cases you can torture numbers to tell them whatever you want them to say. Maybe the problem becomes a problem when people start to believe it. The World is constantly in change.

 

[Ben Lamb]

I dont know anyone hoarding anything. Do you? Probably the same 10% group of knuckleheads that throw their beer cans in the ditch.

I watched a woman fill up a cart with potatoes & proceed to scream at the stocker who politely asked her to leave some for everyone else.

The screaming woman is a small business owner who wasn't getting her shipment for her product.

I think that normal people are being pushed to brink and that is reflected in their actions lately. Talking with some of the grocery store workers, they're saying it's most people acting like idiots and not the usual amount.

 

[SAJ-99]

I'll bet the US comes out of this a skinny smarter pig and China comes out a dead pig.

The global economy has developed the way it has over the last 50 years because the US wanted it that way. More specifically, US corporations wanted it that way. Many of those corporations wanted to build stuff in other places because it is cheaper (and the US consumer loves and demands cheap), and now they want to sell that stuff in those places because US growth is maxed out. Thinking that is going to change is a fantasy, mostly because the average US consumer isn't going to pay what it would take for it to happen.
Keep in mind that those same US corporations are holding their employees over the governments head as bait when asking for a handout. Boeing, all airlines, movie theaters...the list is practically endless. They have the power and nothing will change as long as that remains the case.

Please don't read this as a call to Socialism, because it isn't. It is just a statement on the current structure of the system.

 

[Irrelevant]

Good rule of thumb for internet discussions is act like you're talking to a family member you like & respect.

You may want to smack them, but then you're out of the will.

Dude, seriously... we talked about this already. Enough with the high road BS!

 

[TheJason]

Stimulus Talks Hit Snags on How to Provide Assistance to Americans

 

[Nameless Range]

Maybe a little sensational, but isn’t comforting.

”The markets are not normal, either. The stock market lost 20 percent of its value in just 21 days—the fastest and sharpest bear market on record, faster than 1929, faster than 1987, 10 times faster than 2007. The financial system has required no less than seven emergency interventions by the Federal Reserve in the past week. The country’s central bank has wrenched interest rates to zero, started buying more than half a trillion dollars of financial assets, and opened up special facilities to inject liquidity into the financial system.”

This Is Not a Recession. It’s an Ice Age.

No one alive has experienced an economic plunge this sudden.

www.theatlantic.com