Thoughts on this bailout and “stimulus”?

[matt0550]

Today a local radio personality (who normally finds a way under my skin though hes intelligent and likeable) went on a tear about stimulus and it caught me off guard. His chief complaint is that while he made well over the stimulus cutoff last year, due to his change in program status with his new network he will be well below the maximum and WOULD receive stimulus money (if it were based in his current income)- also has 3 kids, so a decent check. His gripe is that he wont get it based on what he made at his previous position which is no longer his income level. He went on further to describe what he feels will happen once the fed has paid out a couple trillion and that is when everyone goes back to work and the nation has assumed all of this debt for bailouts that our dollar will be worth approximately cents less than it is today. His problem is that while his income wont increase, the value of the dollar will decrease under inflation and HE will be one of the few that never received any aid yet is stuck with the repercussions. He believes that EVERY American should get the check unless they make millions every year because everyone is going to share equally in the loss of our dollar and the depression to follow.

I dont even know what to think of that argument?
Interesting take on things anyway.

 

[1_pointer]

Today a local radio personality (who normally finds a way under my skin though hes intelligent and likeable) went on a tear about stimulus and it caught me off guard. His chief complaint is that while he made well over the stimulus cutoff last year, due to his change in program status with his new network he will be well below the maximum and WOULD receive stimulus money (if it were based in his current income)- also has 3 kids, so a decent check. His gripe is that he wont get it based on what he made at his previous position which is no longer his income level. He went on further to describe what he feels will happen once the fed has paid out a couple trillion and that is when everyone goes back to work and the nation has assumed all of this debt for bailouts that our dollar will be worth approximately cents less than it is today. His problem is that while his income wont increase, the value of the dollar will decrease under inflation and HE will be one of the few that never received any aid yet is stuck with the repercussions. He believes that EVERY American should get the check unless they make millions every year because everyone is going to share equally in the loss of our dollar and the depression to follow.

I dont even know what to think of that argument?
Interesting take on things anyway.

Interesting that he drew a line in the sand just like the proposed rules. Just gerrymandered himself on the side getting the check. More than a bit ironic.

 

[brymoore]

Today a local radio personality (who normally finds a way under my skin though hes intelligent and likeable) went on a tear about stimulus and it caught me off guard. His chief complaint is that while he made well over the stimulus cutoff last year, due to his change in program status with his new network he will be well below the maximum and WOULD receive stimulus money (if it were based in his current income)- also has 3 kids, so a decent check. His gripe is that he wont get it based on what he made at his previous position which is no longer his income level. He went on further to describe what he feels will happen once the fed has paid out a couple trillion and that is when everyone goes back to work and the nation has assumed all of this debt for bailouts that our dollar will be worth approximately cents less than it is today. His problem is that while his income wont increase, the value of the dollar will decrease under inflation and HE will be one of the few that never received any aid yet is stuck with the repercussions. He believes that EVERY American should get the check unless they make millions every year because everyone is going to share equally in the loss of our dollar and the depression to follow.

I dont even know what to think of that argument?
Interesting take on things anyway.

Inflation. I think he’s hopeful the direction of the economy will take.

 

[BigHornRam]

The global economy has developed the way it has over the last 50 years because the US wanted it that way. More specifically, US corporations wanted it that way. Many of those corporations wanted to build stuff in other places because it is cheaper (and the US consumer loves and demands cheap), and now they want to sell that stuff in those places because US growth is maxed out. Thinking that is going to change is a fantasy, mostly because the average US consumer isn't going to pay what it would take for it to happen.
Keep in mind that those same US corporations are holding their employees over the governments head as bait when asking for a handout. Boeing, all airlines, movie theaters...the list is practically endless. They have the power and nothing will change as long as that remains the case.

Please don't read this as a call to Socialism, because it isn't. It is just a statement on the current structure of the system.

Thanks for your opinions. If you were paying attention, Michael Bloomberg's globalist views didn't play too well only a few short weeks ago, before all hell broke loose. I see you are commenting on another thread about how stupid everyone is and how you plan on personally profiting with all the chaos going on. Dont take offense when I say I hope you lose your ass with your investment strategies.

I think this event is a wake up call for America and Americans to reevaluate our priorities and I believe that is what will happen. Best of luck to you.

 

[geetar]

I’d rather not have the bailout but it’s less about saving corporation and more about doing what’s bests for everybody involved. It’s easy to say let airlines and other corporations fail but it’s not for the good of the people as a whole to let that happen. We need those corporations and businesses and it’s just a rock and a hard place situation. As for the stimulus I’ll be fine if I don’t receive any money as I try to manage my finances in a responsible manner but if I do receive any I don’t plan to blow it but rather use it for the intended purposes. I hope we all come out of this frustrating time wiser and more educated for the future.

 

[Trial153]

The only thing my wife and i will get from the bail out is a bill...

 

[Shangobango]

I am not an economist by any stretch but I have major concerns about these stimulus plans. As a debt adverse person it seems like a potentially hazardous path.

 

[JLS]

MSN

This is our great economic crisis in a nutshell: Consumers are vanishing, but financial obligations are not. Without a major intervention, the entire global leisure and retail economy—and soon, perhaps, the entire economy, period—is facing mass layoffs, mass bankruptcy, or both.

There is only one solution to this problem: The public sector must step in and play consumer for several months, until the virus passes. Salis calls for a comprehensive financial-aid package that can help companies “[subsidize] labor, vendors, loans, rent or mortgage, and other payments through these significant disruptions so businesses can come out on the other side empowered to move forward and not shut down operations indefinitely.” Perhaps this will require a one-time $1 trillion infusion of cash to U.S. households to protect people from the inevitable downturn. Perhaps it will require hundreds of billions of dollars in grants or cheap loans to affected businesses. Very likely, it will require a bit of both. As with social distancing, economic solutions that sound rash and extreme today may sound conservative and inevitable in 48 hours.

 

[SAJ-99]

Thanks for your opinions. If you were paying attention, Michael Bloomberg's globalist views didn't play too well only a few short weeks ago, before all hell broke loose. I see you are commenting on another thread about how stupid everyone is and how you plan on personally profiting with all the chaos going on. Dont take offense when I say I hope you lose your ass with your investment strategies.

I think this event is a wake up call for America and Americans to reevaluate our priorities and I believe that is what will happen. Best of luck to you.

Sorry you took offense or misinterpreted this post or any other. I agree that this is a time for Americans to reevaluate our priorities. Unfortunately, I’ve seen before how this plays out and feel it looks very similar so far. I would like to see change, but I wouldn’t put my money on that horse.

 

[JLS]

Opinion | Banks Should Defer Household Debt to Protect the Economy — POLITICO

Lenders got bailed out in the last crisis. Here’s how they can help in this one.

apple.news

 

[BigHornRam]

Sorry you took offense or misinterpreted this post or any other. I agree that this is a time for Americans to reevaluate our priorities. Unfortunately, I’ve seen before how this plays out and feel it looks very similar so far. I would like to see change, but I wouldn’t put my money on that horse.

No offense taken. Just pity for someone so negative. Happy hunting.

 

[jryoung]

Any industry bailout needs guardrails.

The 2017 tax act provided much needed cash for corporations, where is it? What did they do with it?

To follow up on this thought, Boeing.

Here's a company near and dear to my heart as I grew up in the Seattle area, and long before it was Microsoft and Amazon, Boeing was....and to a large extent still is a cornerstone of the economy.

That said, this is my struggle with the relief packages. Here's a company that took their money when it was good and gave it back to shareholders.....which, is what should be done, they have a fiduciary responsibility to do so, I'm not against that. However, they prioritized shareholders before their balance sheet, and before safety (see 737 MAX).

So now we are in a pickle, we have jobs, livelihoods and the economy at risk and we're in a too big to fail position. In the economic run since 2009 coupled with the 2017 tax act companies could and should have cleared up their balances sheets based on their industry, invested in growth, and put aside cash for a rainy day. Same shit from 2008.

In Hunt Talk terms, this is the landowner with 1,000 head of elk one their land, but won't provide access, and instead wants sale-able landowner tags or cash from an agency.

What teeth can we put into these packages, should there be a test to look back on what these companies have done with their positions over the past decade?

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4333360-boeing-wasted-60-billion

 

[1_pointer]

To follow up on this thought, Boeing.

Here's a company near and dear to my heart as I grew up in the Seattle area, and long before it was Microsoft and Amazon, Boeing was....and to a large extent still is a cornerstone of the economy.

That said, this is my struggle with the relief packages. Here's a company that took their money when it was good and gave it back to shareholders.....which, is what should be done, they have a fiduciary responsibility to do so, I'm not against that. However, they prioritized shareholders before their balance sheet, and before safety (see 737 MAX).

So now we are in a pickle, we have jobs, livelihoods and the economy at risk and we're in a too big to fail position. In the economic run since 2009 coupled with the 2017 tax act companies could and should have cleared up their balances sheets based on their industry, invested in growth, and put aside cash for a rainy day. Same shit from 2008.

In Hunt Talk terms, this is the landowner with 1,000 head of elk one their land, but won't provide access, and instead wants sale-able landowner tags or cash from an agency.

What teeth can we put into these packages, should there be a test to look back on what these companies have done with their positions over the past decade?

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4333360-boeing-wasted-60-billion

That question is probably in the "should but won't/can't" category...

 

[Big Fin]

I think a precedent was set with the 2008 bailouts - large companies don't need to manage their balance sheets responsibly, Uncle Sam will bail you out if you are in the "too big to fail" category. Being as irresponsible as some of these companies have been, especially with the recent windfall of huge decreases in corporate tax rates, it is the employees and the many vendors who are small businesses who have been put at greatest risk.

If these companies go tits up, the folks who have been getting huge bonuses by increasing share price by doing nothing more than embarking on stock repurchase plans are going to be just fine. Some may not understand how it works, but large Executive and Director compensation is given for increase in share price. It is easy to create temporary spikes in stock price at the expense of future long-term viability and sound balance sheet management; just embark on a large share repurchase program. The company is not worth a penny more, but the number of share outstanding is less, so the price per share is higher. Jackpot for those who have contracts that award huge bonuses for increases in share price.

Nothing has been done to help the company. Nothing has been done to help the employees who have made the company what it is. Nope, the balance sheet and financial health might have even went in the shitter, but because the share price has increased due to this little financial stunt known as share repurchase, tens of millions in bonuses are paid to Executives and Directors who have done nothing of value to the company and its business enterprise.

The employees, the vendors, and the communities that depend on these companies are going to pay the price; they get to walk down to the unemployment line. While employees are picking up pink slips, the small handful of schmucks at the top are going to sneak out of town with their trunk loads of cash and live a life unaffected by their bad decisions.

I am not inclined to see another stimulus package passed that rewards this kind of behavior in a way so slanted to such a minuscule handful of top folks in Board Rooms. We set the path forward in 2008 with that bailout. It only accelerated with the corporate tax law changes in 2017. I want financial help for those who are bearing the burnt of this, but I'd prefer not to reinforce these bad ideas and bad behaviors that seems to come from many corporate Board Rooms.

 

[JLS]

The U.S. Shut Down Its Economy. Here’s What Needs to Happen in Order to Restart.

 

[Nameless Range]

Opinion | Will Our Economy Die From Coronavirus? (Published 2020)

It will if we keep up our current strategy.

www.nytimes.com

How the Covid-19 recession could become a depression

Coronavirus is a global economic catastrophe.

www.vox.com

I am hearing the word "depression" instead of recession, the more I read. I hope that is hyperbole, but have no way to tell.

 

[JLS]

Opinion | Will Our Economy Die From Coronavirus? (Published 2020)

It will if we keep up our current strategy.

www.nytimes.com

How the Covid-19 recession could become a depression

Coronavirus is a global economic catastrophe.

www.vox.com

I am hearing the word "depression" instead of recession, the more I read. I hope that is hyperbole, but have no way to tell.

My fear is a continued haphazard approach to stopping the virus will lead to a much more prolonged recovery, both physically and economically.

Edit: There is plenty of data showing the inherent risk of responding too late, or too little for both our physical and economic recovery.

Or, we could just say screw everyone if you weren't prepared, and let the virus and corresponding recession/depression weed out the unhealthy.

Last edit: one aspect to the death toll from this that I haven't seen discussed is a marked uptick in suicides that is sure to come with bankruptcies, foreclosures, etc.

 

[elkantlers]

I too hope the working class people that are not getting a pay check are the ones that benefit from the stimulus package. I know if I end up getting some kind of check I will spend it to help those small business' and their employees in my area stay afloat.

 

[BuzzH]

I think a precedent was set with the 2008 bailouts - large companies don't need to manage their balance sheets responsibly, Uncle Sam will bail you out if you are in the "too big to fail" category. Being as irresponsible as some of these companies have been, especially with the recent windfall of huge decreases in corporate tax rates, it is the employees and the many vendors who are small businesses who have been put at greatest risk.

If these companies go tits up, the folks who have been getting huge bonuses by increasing share price by doing nothing more than embarking on stock repurchase plans are going to be just fine. Some may not understand how it works, but large Executive and Director compensation is given for increase in share price. It is easy to create temporary spikes in stock price at the expense of future long-term viability and sound balance sheet management; just embark on a large share repurchase program. The company is not worth a penny more, but the number of share outstanding is less, so the price per share is higher. Jackpot for those who have contracts that award huge bonuses for increases in share price.

Nothing has been done to help the company. Nothing has been done to help the employees who have made the company what it is. Nope, the balance sheet and financial health might have even went in the shitter, but because the share price has increased due to this little financial stunt known as share repurchase, tens of millions in bonuses are paid to Executives and Directors who have done nothing of value to the company and its business enterprise.

The employees, the vendors, and the communities that depend on these companies are going to pay the price; they get to walk down to the unemployment line. While employees are picking up pink slips, the small handful of schmucks at the top are going to sneak out of town with their trunk loads of cash and live a life unaffected by their bad decisions.

I am not inclined to see another stimulus package passed that rewards this kind of behavior in a way so slanted to such a minuscule handful of top folks in Board Rooms. We set the path forward in 2008 with that bailout. It only accelerated with the corporate tax law changes in 2017. I want financial help for those who are bearing the burnt of this, but I'd prefer not to reinforce these bad ideas and bad behaviors that seems to come from many corporate Board Rooms.

This^^^^Is worth reading twice, at the very least.

 

[Irrelevant]

Because our govt is full of people elected by donations from those executives I think the massive bailout is a done deal. It's just a matter of whether it's huge or UGE!