The TV Show

[farmboy]

i love it!! finally a show for us who will probably never spend the money on a guided hunt.

 

[bobbydean]

Some great footage! I'll be watching when it hits the tube.

 

[noharleyyet]

Federal Grazing Fee

the federal grazing fee, which applies to federal lands in 16 western states on public lands managed by the blm and the u.s. Forest service, is adjusted annually and is calculated by using a formula originally set by congress in the public rangelands improvement act of 1978. Under this formula, as modified and extended by a presidential executive order issued in 1986, the grazing fee cannot fall below $1.35 per animal unit month (aum); also, any fee increase or decrease cannot exceed 25 percent of the previous year’s level. (an aum is the amount of forage needed to sustain one cow and her calf, one horse, or five sheep or goats for a month.) the grazing fee for 2009 is $1.35 per aum, the same level as it was in 2008.

the federal grazing fee is computed by using a 1966 base value of $1.23 per aum for livestock grazing on public lands in western states. The figure is then adjusted each year according to three factors – current private grazing land lease rates, beef cattle prices, and the cost of livestock production. In effect, the fee rises, falls, or stays the same based on market conditions, with livestock operators paying more when conditions are better and less when conditions have declined.[/

 

[shoots-straight]

I guess the explanation that you aren't allowed to film in Wilderness areas will exclude any shows on backpack hunting trips. I learned something new today. Thanks Fin.

shooter, comparing a film crew's impact compared to 300 cattle on the range for 3 months is ridiculous don't you think. Old thinking, gets old. I'd rather kick all the cattle off and raise wildlife so Randy could make more films. Less impact on the land, and all of us could enjoy his results. (I don't eat beef so don't get going on that).

 

[Oak]

I apologize in advance for continuing the hijacking of this thread, but here's some information on the subsidy Big Fin was talking about:

http://ncseonline.org/NLE/CRSreports/08Apr/RS21232.pdf

The BLM and FS are charging a grazing fee of $1.35 per AUM from March 1, 2008,
through February 28, 2009. This is the lowest fee that can be charged. It is generally
lower than fees charged for grazing on other federal lands as well as on state and private
lands. A study by the Government Accountability Office (GAO) found that other federal
agencies charged $0.29 to $112.50 per AUM in FY2004. While the BLM and FS use a
formula to set the grazing fee (see “The Fee Formula” below), most agencies charge a fee
based on competitive methods or a market price for forage. Some seek to recover the
costs of their grazing programs. State and private landowners generally seek market value
for grazing, with state fees ranging from $1.35 to $80 per AUM and private fees from $8
to $23 per AUM. The average monthly lease rate for grazing on private lands in 11
western states in 2006 was $15.10 per head.

 

[Big Shooter]

Dear "Big Kahuna" (A.K.A. Big Fin);

There has been many discussions on this site, and yes there has been times that you have been involved (believe it or not), about how ranchers and outfitters shouldn 't be able to profit off of publicly owned game animals as well as publicly owned ground yada, yada, yada...... But now that you are doing it, it's O.K.? I am all for you making a profit and good luck with it, but you need to quit being such a damn hypocrite, come on, you are better than that. Your peanut gallery has damn sure voiced their opinions in the past about it as well, I didn't just dream this up.

People are getting sick and tired of hearing the resident hunters of Montana piss and moan about being treated so unfair and it's getting really, really old. You might want to check your statistics on how much outfitters have to pay to use BLM too, if I remember correctly I was told by a reliable source that it is a little more than that. I will say this, the filming permit seems to be awfully high too for as little impact as you have on the BLM owned ground, honestly. Maybe you and Greenhorn should start writing letters to your legislatures and congressman on that subject too since you like to bother them all of the time on hunter/outfitter/landowner issues.

 

[Big Fin]

Dear "Big Kahuna" (A.K.A. Big Fin);

There has been many discussions on this site, and yes there has been times that you have been involved (believe it or not), about how ranchers and outfitters shouldn 't be able to profit off of publicly owned game animals as well as publicly owned ground yada, yada, yada...... But now that you are doing it, it's O.K.?

Shooter:

I would challenge you to cite one instance where I complained about someone making a profit on a public resource. If so, post it here. Don't post some small piece that you will take out of context.

You might find where I criticize those policies whereby a user of a public resource does not pay their fair share, or they receive/are allocated assets to the detriment of others. But, you will never find me criticizing any one who makes a profit in a manner where they pay full share, whether from a public or private resource.

Every piece you will read that I wrote regarding the outfitter issues is the subsidy issue. I couldn't give two hoots if they all became billionaires, if they did so without the subsidy of guaranteed tags. That is the issue I continue to discuss about outfitting in MT. I wish for two things. 1) We get rid of the subsidy of guaranteed tags, and 2) the remaining outfitters who can survive without that subsidy all have thriving businesses.

As far as ranching on public ground, I feel the same way. If they build Berkshire Hathaway-like empires from ranching, I will be glad for them. I just want those who graze on public land to pay the going rate and pay for the impacts they place on the land. If they can pay those rates and make a profit all the better.

This subsidy does two things. 1) It results in impacts on public land that are not compensated for, and 2) It artificially lowers the price of grazing pasture for my clients who own pasture near National Forest. Why would somone pay going rate pasture for my client's private ground, when they can get subsidized pasture from the USDA?

Seems like every person I have these debates with, including you, never want to talk about subsidy. You want to change the argument from what the real topic is - receiving benefit without paying the fair share. I know the word subsidy is a dirty word to those who like to create this mythical image of self-reliance and independence, but what outfitters and public land grazers receive is a subsidy. Call it whatever else you want, but it is a subsidy.

And if you search more threads, you will see where I am embarrassed about the fees MT resident hunters pay. We are getting a subsidy, no doubt about it. We are asking non-residents to pay way too much. When I go to the legislature and ask that those fees be raised, every legislator and governor calls it a tax and the idea is dead before it arrives. But, I am not afraid to call it what it is - a subsidy.

I have no problem if I, or any other user of public lands, makes a profit, so long as we are paying for our impacts and paying the same as we would pay for private resources. No change in my position, just because I have been paying thousands of dollars for filming permits.

I think the cost of filming permits are fair, so I won't be writing my legislators about it. I do wish they would let me film in a wilderness area, and I do call/write them about that.

 

[JoseCuervo]

I have a bit of a problem with this statement and have to throw out the "Bullshit Flag".

I think you forgot the "flag", and just threw bullshit....

Maybe you should all get your heads out of the sand, or wherever they are stuck, and come to the realizaation that the so called "Welfare ranchers" are not getting rich off of public land like you would like to think.

If your local Welfare Rancher isn't "getting rich" off of My Public Lands, then why don't you ask him to give up his grazing leases and just rely on using private, deeded land to "get rich"?

My guess is you would see the typical Welfare Rancher whining and crying like every other time. Luckily, Judge Winmill, last week, has decided that Welfare Ranching needs another good look as to the damage that cattle due to our hunting opportunities.

BOISE, Idaho — Environmental advocates say a judge's recent decision in their lawsuit over dwindling Western bird habitat will let them fight for a sweeping regional solution and avoid costly state-by-state legal battles.

The Western Watershed Project accuses the U.S. Bureau of Land Management of improperly giving priority to grazing and energy development over habitat for the sage grouse, a hen-sized game bird the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service is considering adding to the list of threatened or endangered species.

The conservation group claims the BLM violated environmental laws and its own policies in creating 18 land-use plans covering more than 25 million acres in Idaho, Wyoming, Nevada, Utah, Montana and northern California.

Last month government lawyers, joined by members of the Wyoming livestock and petroleum industry, asked a federal judge to dismiss the lawsuit or split it apart to be argued separately in federal courts in each state.

Government lawyers argued that the court in Boise lacks jurisdiction over challenges of policy developed in other states and that keeping case consolidated undermines the local public input used to craft each of the 20-year plans.

U.S. District Judge B. Linn Winmill dismissed the idea that he lacked jurisdiction to settle environmental claims in other states, citing a recent example of how a federal judge in Montana has handled lawsuits over delisting wolves in Idaho, Montana and Wyoming.

"Resolution of environmental actions often affects areas far outside the judicial district of the resolving court," Winmill wrote.

 

[Calif. Hunter]

Hmm - a Federal judge "should" only have jurisdiction in the state he is located in? Over Federal land? Riiiiiiiight.

 

[csutton7]

nice and good luck--look forward to seeing it--chris

 

[A-con]

I finally got a computer and connection fast enough to watch the “On your own” sizzle reel.
Great stuff randy. I can think of a few “Hunt Talkers” who are gonna be stars !
I think the show will be a big hit. There’s a few people back east that need an education as to how much physical work is involved in the average western hunt. Consider it a public service
Don’t worry about making too much money off the peoples land and game, when your own personal bank vault starts overflowing you can always store a couple million at my house.

 

[Blue Yummies]

Was curious if big fin has sponsors or any advertisers yet??

 

[the nikster]

enjoyed it

Big fin,
I really enjoyed the film. Thanks for the trailer-I'm hooked!
If you ever need to film in Idaho I'd like to tag along.
I'm alright with pay for play, heck I'm even ok with NEEDED subsidies and MINIMAL entitlements.
I don't pay 1966 prices for steaks but a rancher gets to pay '66 prices to produce it? That's crap!
Yes, I have family(whom I love) that farms and ranches.
I hope you succeed it this endeavor no matter how you measure succes.

 

[ELKCHSR]

Hunttalkers are hardcore hunters, and aren't real excited about being bogged down with doing scenic shots, being asked to climb the ridge a second time, as the first time didn't have good lighting, having a tangled mess of mic cables around their chest, being asked to stop and do two hours of interviews, having to wait as camera guys lug these big loads of equipment as they try their best to keep up, and many other things where TV production gets in the way of hunting. Yet, we are first and foremost trying to tell a story, so we do these things, even though we know it makes the very difficult task of non-guided accessible land hunting that much more of a challenge. As if it wasn't challenging enough.

All joking aside and with the comments that I'm sure will be forthcomming...

How hard core are you really looking for?

 

[ELKCHSR]

Most of the same people who complain about cows grazing on public land are the same people who complain about fires "devestating" their hunting grounds...

I suppose the only thing most people have in their lives is to complain, mostly about issues that hurt their feelings but honestly have no real time or energy invested except lip service...

 

[Layin_It_Down]

The video preview looks great!! Terrific storyline and fantastic footage. There also seems to be good camera presense. Raw emotion is another great quality that I saw in a few of the clips. Can't wait to see it on the OC.

 

[Big Fin]

You guys are a good test sample. Here are the air times, all times Eastern.

Fridays - 1:30 PM and Midnight
Sundays - 5:00 PM

If you don't get the Outdoor Channel, well.......then get it. Here is a link where you can subscribe, if you don't already. http://www.outdoorchannel.com/GetOutdoorChannel.aspx

And for those of you non-TV types, our agreement allows us to start streaming the full episodes in early December. For obvious reasons, we need to wait until everyone has seen them on OC.

First airing will be Friday July 3rd. It will be the Wyoming elk episode. All of you got to read that story, and now you will get to see it unfold in front of the cameras.

I hope you find it to be enjoyable. Here is the link to the original story, as I posted it here. http://www.hunttalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36521


We will be making much bigger announcements in the next few weeks.

Pretty soon Outdoor Channel will have their site updated with all our stuff. It will have a link to here, so be nice to any new guys who come here looking to see what all these crazy Hunttalkers are up to.

Hey Moosie, 'spose those other sites ever thought your site would have a TV show?

 

[ERSS]

Can hardly wait, Congrats. I will spread the word around these parts!

 

[cornfed]

I've been waiting to see a clip or some advertising or something of the type on the OC but nothing yet.When can I expect to see a little teaser on the tube?

 

[Big Fin]

When can I expect to see a little teaser on the tube?

The last week of June, they (OC) will start promoting the new shows. We will have some 3 minute previews of each episode on the site. But, they will be teasers. Can't show all the goods, or no one will watch it on the tube.