The TV Show

[Tom]

Life is more complicated than many here realize, it seems to me. It doesn't look like hunting, if you have a very narrow view and experience of hunting, or it doesn't look like the kind of hunting I do.

I'm not opposed to bear steaks, I liked the bear meat I got.

It was over the counter, diy national forest and wilderness area, but I got him in the forest, no dogs, no bait, but a friend who helped me, so it only took 3 trips.

 

[Oak]

I didn't bag on their type of hunting...I just said it was not my thing. Ironically, I suspect I have a wider view and experience of hunting than a lot of the folks that hunt those ranches. If that's not the case, then they must be looking for the easy way.

That's a heck of a bear, and I respect the way you hunted him. I can't respect the harvest of a whitetail under a corn flinger. Sorry if that's offensive to some.

 

[Tom]

Have you ever hunted where they have corn flingers? I know people who put out 500 lbs and never see a deer there in daylight, but its full of deer tracks from the night, which is to say, its not what some imagine it is.

 

[Blue Yummies]

I know. I'm a lover not a fighter. You didn't get under my skin. I hope it works itself out.. for your sake. Brain transplants will soon be a reality. It's science.

For my sake??? I am shaking in my boots. I love the fact that
everyone here thinks that they missed there calling as professional hunters. Just because you shoot a couple nice bucks doesn't make anyone a pro.
I am giving props to big fin for taking the initiative to do this. Not like other people saying that they were going to do this but didnt.
My question is this, how many episodes can big fin do before he runs out of new episodes?
Greenie you are all bark, by the way why did you take all of your past photos off of hunttalk?

 

[Oak]

Have you ever hunted where they have corn flingers? I know people who put out 500 lbs and never see a deer there in daylight, but its full of deer tracks from the night, which is to say, its not what some imagine it is.

That sounds like a waste of 500 lbs of corn. Why do they do that? Why don't they just go hunt the deer where they are during the day? Too lazy? Do the deer teleport to another planet during the day?

 

[Tom]

They put the corn out, so the deer have a reason to stay in their area. If they don't, the deer will hang out at the neighbors all the time. They're pretty much stuck on this planet, the deer, can't get off. They don't just hunt the feeder, but they can't just go wherever the deer go either. If they pressure them too much, they'll leave the property and/or stay nocturnal for weeks.

I wish Big Fin much more success with his/they're/our show! He said hunttalk is the center for it, so he wants more hunttalkers involved, that's one way to get more shows, I see that.

 

[The Hedgehog]

Greenie you are all bark, by the way why did you take all of your past photos off of hunttalk?

I reorganzied the subdirectories on my photobucket account and it broke all the old links. What? Did you lose your favorite tossing material?

Here's one for you just so you don't get DSB. Taken a couple days ago..

 

[Oak]

They put the corn out, so the deer have a reason to stay in their area. If they don't, the deer will hang out at the neighbors all the time. They're pretty much stuck on this planet, the deer, can't get off. They don't just hunt the feeder, but they can't just go wherever the deer go either. If they pressure them too much, they'll leave the property and/or stay nocturnal for weeks.

I agree with you Tom...Texas is pretty screwed up. About all we can do is try to keep it confined to that state. If people like hunting that way, they can go to Texas.

 

[Tom]

Taken a couple days ago..

Did you get it on film for the Big Fin show?

I agree with you Tom...

cool

 

[noharleyyet]

I agree with you Tom...Texas is pretty screwed up.

Oak, are there no demand mitigated hunting rationales on private property in Colorado?

 

[Oak]

Oak, are there no demand mitigated hunting rationales on private property in Colorado?

Dang nhy, just say what you mean. Don't make me read what you write 6 times just to understand it.

Ok, I'll admit, after 6 times, I still didn't understand it.

 

[DRAFTSTUD]

Dang nhy, just say what you mean. Don't make me read what you write 6 times just to understand it.

Ok, I'll admit, after 6 times, I still didn't understand it.

http://thesaurus.reference.com/ There ya go Oak. LOL John

 

[Tom]

Yes, demand mitigated hunting rationale or insistence reconciled venatics justification,either way:

I think he means screwed up might be a little screwed up way to describe what it is that Oak agrees with me on, eh nhy?

 

[Big Fin]

Thanks for the comments. Too many questions to answer here, so I will try to make some points that address a few of them.

Most of the hunting guests on the show will be hunttalkers. Yup, for the upcoming year, if you aren't a hunttalker, don't expect to be in the show.

That adds a lot of challenge. Let's face it, hunttalkers are hunters, not actors. Most shows are done with professional hosts. Don't want that in our show. But, there are certain production procedures that get better with practice. Having new guys on every hunt makes it really difficult on the production crew, as they are always giving lessons and pointers about how the hunters must do things to make better TV. So, even though the editors require a checklist of re-enacted scenes, we hardly use any of them, as our guys are way better "in the moment" than they are when asked to re-enact. And, by having two cameras, we can have one on the hunters and one on the game, and catch it all "real time."

Hunttalkers are hardcore hunters, and aren't real excited about being bogged down with doing scenic shots, being asked to climb the ridge a second time, as the first time didn't have good lighting, having a tangled mess of mic cables around their chest, being asked to stop and do two hours of interviews, having to wait as camera guys lug these big loads of equipment as they try their best to keep up, and many other things where TV production gets in the way of hunting. Yet, we are first and foremost trying to tell a story, so we do these things, even though we know it makes the very difficult task of non-guided accessible land hunting that much more of a challenge. As if it wasn't challenging enough.

Most non-professional hunters don't want to be told to hold their shot until the focus is correct and the light conditions are better. They don't like being told to quit a half hour early, as filming light usually expires about a half hour before official end of legal shooting hours.

It is for many of these reasons that most shows have paid professional hunters, hunting in controlled environments, where the animals are less spooky, there is no competition from other hunters, and the conditions under which the videographers must operate are far easier. Those environments and conditions makes it easier to get the footage quality we are shooting for, and can be done at less cost. We have decided to fight these conditions and incur these costs to obtain the footage at the highest possible HD quality, in spite of the obstacles presented by our mission to capture non-guided hunting in the wild.

We don't want a show like many of the others. Therefore, we pass on lots of opportunities due to light conditions, we incur far more costs due to extra days afield and having an additional camera man, and it is much more work. Having been a guest hunter on four shows prior to starting this one, and having filmed my own stuff for three years, I can tell you we are going so far beyond what most shows will do, that it is hard to even make a comparison.

I know I am biased due to my involvement in the show and my passion for On Your Own hunting. Without this commitment to the non-guided hunting idea, I would have given up a long time ago and saved myself many hundreds of thousands of dollars.

As far as concerns of those who say I am profiting off a public resource, or off wildlife, I will let you continue to think that. Though it will be a long time before this endeavor becomes profitable. I pay more in filming permits than most could imagine. I think paying for those permits, which is more than most other large scale commercial users of public lands will pay, is a fair fee for what "profit" I am supposedly making off these resources.

I do get frustrated when I see other shows filmed in wilderness areas. I know they are not seeking permits. I know this, as filming permits cannot be acquired for wilderness areas. So, not only are they skipping out on the fees for use of your public lands, they are filming hunts that those of us following the rules will not film, due to our commitment to following permit requirements.

I have seen two TV sheep hunts this winter, both filmed in wilderness areas, and two TV elk hunts filmed in wilderness areas. It is getting to the point where I hope people start reporting this to agencies, as these folks are doing something illegal, and not paying the user fees. In my mind, it is not too much different than hunting without a license.

Just another issue I confront while trying to follow the rules, while some competitors cut corners. We had to drop two really cool wilderness hunts from the 2008 filming schedule due to wilderness issues.

As far as tags, I have been applying as a non-resident in many states, since 1993. If points were money, I could fund even more TV production. Between myself and some other hunttalkers, we have enough points to get more than enough tags for the 13 episodes needed each year.

Gotta run. Thanks again. All comments are appreciated.

 

[DRAFTSTUD]

Big Fin, If it helps any with what you consider in a Hunttalker, I played one of the 3 Gentlemen in "A Christmas Carol" when I was in the 5th Grade! John

 

[camo308]

EXCELLENT!!

That was a great lead into a new show. If you can maintain that quality on DIY hunts I would think you can't miss with this one.

I am a DIY hunter from day one and this show looks to be fantastic!

I always joke while I'm watching some of the shows on the Outdoor Channel and some "hunter", who is really just a shooter,(no names here we all know who they are) take "the biggest buck I ever shot!". What a load of crap. Some rancher who feeds his deer out of the back of his pickup sets the guy up on the chute the deer needs to take to get from the pickup to water or the other way around.

Of course, after he shoots the buck he claims that if it wasn't for his XYZ Scope or the BFD camo or his ABC scent, he would never have been successful. If the sponsors hadn't paid the rancher for the trip the rancher wouldn't have had the $$ to feed the buck the "Wonder Oats" sold by Big Buck Inc. that made his rack grow so out-of-proportion.

There are only a couple of hunting shows that I enjoy watching. I know some of you pick on Eastman's but that and a couple of others are mostly DIY and show something of what it takes. But FIN, what I just saw of your show surpasses any of the others by leaps and bounds.

There is nothing wrong with hunting on a guy's ranch or farm and shooting a nice animal. But when it's a hunting for profit operation don't tell me that's a fair chase animal. That's just like going out and shooting some guy's Hereford bull and saying that you "stalked him for an hour before I could get a shot". Give me a break!

Good luck with this show, I know I'll watch it everytime it's on. :hump:

 

[Big Shooter]

.


As far as concerns of those who say I am profiting off a public resource, or off wildlife, I will let you continue to think that. Though it will be a long time before this endeavor becomes profitable. I pay more in filming permits than most could imagine. I think paying for those permits, which is more than most other large scale commercial users of public lands will pay, is a fair fee for what "profit" I am supposedly making off these resources.

First of all, the footage looked great, but I have a bit of a problem with this statement and have to throw out the "Bullshit Flag". Now you are splitting hairs as far as how much profit you are making, or should I say how little of a profit that you are making, and this makes it right. Maybe you should all get your heads out of the sand, or wherever they are stuck, and come to the realizaation that the so called "Welfare ranchers" are not getting rich off of public land like you would like to think. Don't outfitters have to pay for usage on public ground as well? This attitude is typical for this site, profiting off of public ground is wrong unless it is you gaining the profit. Unless you are just so concerned about getting your face on T.V. that you don't care about making a profit, then that is fine, but I don't think that that is the case. You surely intend on profiting in some
way, shape or form or you wouldn't have stuck your neck out like that.

Like I said, great footage and good luck, but I am not totally buying the non-profit B.S.

 

[Big Fin]

Now you are splitting hairs as far as how much profit you are making, or should I say how little of a profit that you are making, and this makes it right.

Shooter: Not sure where you got that, but what ever you want to think. My point is that I am paying more for the minimal impact that me and two camera guys have on the land, than many other users of land. Whether I lose money or make millions, my point was that I think it was a fair fee. Why should the fee be determined by the profit or loss of the enterprise? In my mind, it shouldn't. The fee should be determined by the impact on the land/resources and the value of comparative private resources.

Maybe you should all get your heads out of the sand, or wherever they are stuck, and come to the realizaation that the so called "Welfare ranchers" are not getting rich off of public land like you would like to think.

We have had this discussion before. I have never used the term welfare ranchers. Since you brought it back up, I will comments on what you have stated. A filming permit for one of my thirteen episodes, is the same fee that a rancher will pay for 300 pairs on the same ground for three months. Just my opinion, but from any impact on the resource standpoint, it seems that my five day filming permit is way overpriced, or the grazing fee paid for the cattle on public land is way underpriced.

I have never said that ranchers were getting rich off public land. It is about paying the cost of impacts imposed or a fee that reflects the same cost they would pay for equivalent private resources. I couldn't care less if ranchers, loggers, miners, videographers, or who ever, makes millions off public resources, so long as they pay the value of the public resource they are using or impacting. In fact, I wish they were all making millions.

Don't outfitters have to pay for usage on public ground as well?

Yup, and on BLM, they pay the same fee I pay for a five day filming permit, for the a full season of outfitting.

This attitude is typical for this site, profiting off of public ground is wrong unless it is you gaining the profit.

I don't find that to be typical for this site. I don't hear people complaining about folks making a profit of public ground. What I hear is people pointing out that many users of public ground don't pay for the impacts they have on public ground. And often these users complain that if they had to pay "full boat" for the costs they impose on public resources, they would not make a profit. I, and many others, call the transferring of costs, a subsidy.

Having had long debates on that topic in the past, I know I will not change your mind on it. To me, there is nothing contradictory about having a distaste for public subsidy while supporting activities that pay for their impacts and still make a profit on public ground.

Again, you are entitled to your opinion. I am willing to pay the fee, as I see it as fair. If you want to make that into an issue of unfairly profiting off public ground, go ahead.

Like I said, great footage and good luck, but I am not totally buying the non-profit B.S.

Thanks. Glad you liked it.

I am a CPA. I don't plan on things being a non-profit activity. Given the difficulty of making money in this business, I certainly don't plan on getting rich, either. And, I don't expect the world to subsidize my activities, because there are low profit margins in my chosen pursuit, and therefore ask the public to pay for costs I impose on public resources. Like I have said, it is a fair fee and I will pay it.

 

[Dinkshooter]

Is it $1.37 aum this year?

 

[1_pointer]

Nope, $1.35/AUM.