Texas circus animal hunting on 60 Minutes tonight

[mtmiller]

NoHarley, enough of the games.

 

[noharleyyet]

Where'd Oak go?

 

[Oak]

Do something to promote hunting, educate people: we kill and eat animals, its ok.

http://capwiz.com/biggameforever/home/ The antis would rather wolves do that, eh?

There's a petition to sign and politicians to tell, no wolves in CO please. There's something positive for hunting you might be able to accept and would be worth your time.

Tom, here is the correct link for commenting on the wolf "plan." Not surprised that you are peddling BGF's bogus message, though.

http://www.fws.gov/alamosa/planning/index.html

 

[Tom]

Oak, do you want wolves released there in CO? You know more about them, than I do. I think they're too destructive. Is it true the Idaho elk harvest was cut in half?

 

[Oak]

Tom, do you think wolves are going to be released in CO? On what do you base your opinion?

 

[Big Fin]

Oak, do you want wolves released there in CO? You know more about them, than I do. I think they're too destructive. Is it true the Idaho elk harvest was cut in half?

Tom, the link you provided is from a group that tried to kill the Idaho and Montana wolf seasons. They actively fought the delisting legislation that gave us our seasons.

That is why most people almost vomit when they see this counterfeit group, Big Game For Us, acting like they are going to save us. They cannot be trusted in anything, especially the wolf issue.

If they say the ID wolf harvest was cut in half, I wouldn't believe it without outside verification.

 

[Big Fin]

Tom, do you think wolves are going to be released in CO? On what do you base your opinion?

Are you implying that SFW/BGF is promoting such likelihood in CO, so they could raise more wolf money? Come on, Oak, do you think they would stoop to such measures?

 

[Topgun 30-06]

I got that BS email from Benson this afternoon crying wolf and he says they will be put in the Baca this year. If you read the entire proposal, there are three sections/plans and each is multifaceted. Plan C has one little sentence that says that a wolf introduction may be looked at, but that hunting is the major piece of management strategy for the elk herd there. Naw, Benson/BGF and SFW would never cry wolf just to put money in their coffers, LOL! Bunch of lying bassturds!!!

 

[belly-deep]

I would guess that high fence hunts, like any hunt can vary greatly. During my one and only Texas hunt, I went to a high fenced lease (with a relative) and shot a pig. The lease had been hunted hard by its members and the critters were surprisingly wary. On the other hand, I've seen some free-range public land critters do some awful stupid things. Some damn good bulls have been killed from trucks near Gardiner, MT, just as an example. Just because those bulls were killed as free range critters doesn't elevate them to the same level as every other free range bull in my book.

I don't think that the difficulty to kill any animal can be accurately measured by whether an inescapable fence surrounds it, but rather by what that animal has recieved in hunting pressure.

The fact that there is no way to differentiate a high-fenced area with smart animals and one with dumb ones means that for record book purposes, no high fenced animal is taken "fair chase." I agree with that.

But I don't necessarily agree with the statement that every animal that lives in a high fence is automatically easier to kill than one that is free-range. Just as the fastest male sprinter in the world will always have faster time than the fastest female, the smartest free range crittter will always be harder to kill than the smartest high fenced critter, if just by the fact that somewhere a fence blocks its escape. But just because the world's fastest man can outrun the world's fastest woman, it is not necessarily true that your neighbor can outrun his wife...

 

[spook12]

belly deep, not sure i followed you're line off thinking .But i would bet you a paycheck that my Grandma can out run the worlds fastest man if you build a high fence around him.

 

[mtmiller]

During my one and only Texas hunt, I went to a high fenced lease (with a relative) and shot a pig.

Would you do it again? Does the critter matter?

 

[Tom]

I missed the bad stuff about Big Game Forever trying to stop seasons, thanks. The report read like they were really considering areas to release wolves in more southern areas and I wrote and objected based on how destructive wolves have been near Yellowstone, that I did read a lot about here.

Belly deep makes a very good point, difficulty of the hunt depends a lot on the pressure the animals have. Many of the high fence places here restrict the hunting methods to allow the animals possible escape to cover. Also, whether free range hunting or not a bullet can outrun any animal, we kill and eat animals, to our benefit, to their loss, nothing fair about that for them, as I see it.

 

[The Hedgehog]

where's that photo of Tom, that dumb cow, and the jar of anal lube?

 

[belly-deep]

Would you do it again? Does the critter matter?

Sure I'd do it again. Even if its not exactly my favorite method, it still beats sitting at home on a computer. And if I lived in a state like Texas where that's what the hunting was like, I'd definately do it. I like the experience and the outdoors too much to let something trivial like that prevent me from going. Like I said, the difficultly of an animal to hunt is more a reflection of the hunting pressure on the animal than the fence around it. In fact, the really smart free range critters often don't move much at all. Running wildly for miles all over the countryside is a sure way to get whacked.

I wouldn't pay several thousand dollars to do it, and I wouldn't go around bragging with photos if the critter was a 360" elk instead of a pig, but as long as I could find a reason to justify killing the animal, I would. Keep in mind that here in MT, people go out and "shoot" bison all time in corrals. Nobody is bashing them on here because its done for the sole purpose of "harvesting" the animal as opposed to hunting it. My reason for killing the animal and the value I place on that animal would change if it was in a fence, but the fence alone wouldn't stop me from pulling the trigger.

Right now I belong to a bird preserve here in Missoula. Is it the way I prefer to hunt? Heck no. I'd much rather be chasing wild birds. But the circumstances of my life are such that I don't have the time to chase wild birds. I'm in law school my work load is such that can't drive several hours every weekend to chase pheasants. So what am I supposed to do?

One option would be to let my three pointers chase tweetie birds around the yard for three years because I won't get off my high horse and shoot a bird that was raised in a pen. In my book, thats fuggin lame. In your book, it might be ok, and that's fine because its your book, not mine. I decided option #2 was better for me and the dogs. Take the money I would have spent on gas driving to Choteau and put it towards a bird preserve membership. Then take the time I would have wasted driving and read about Constitutional Law, Business Transactions, and the Federal Income Tax Code. Sure, they're pen raised birds, but it beats the alternative of not doing anything. In a few years it will be different and I'll go back to hunting wild birds. Until then, I'm going to enjoy the preserve season that goes from Sept. 1 through March 31 and I'm going to enjoy being back to my house by 11am with 3 pheasants. I'm also going to enjoy the higher paying job I get because of my GPA. And in the meantime, I'm not going to knock someone that lives in Texas and hunts in a high fence just because I live in Montana and have free-range game 20 minutes from by doorstep.

Also keep in mind that many of the current African hunts for the very animals shown in the video clip do in fact take place in large high fenced areas now. Both Africa and New Zealand are increasingly high fenced. I would guess that some of the high fenced ranches in Texas are as big or bigger than many in Africa. Do the animals get dumber because they change continents?

 

[MHMT]

Maybe someone could create a high fence ranch were the animals are so pressured that they are way harder to kill than free range animals. They could have the guides go shoot at them before their clients came out and make them super spooky. They could even have they're own record book for their trophies that free range animals wouldn't be allowed in because they were too easy to kill.

 

[Tom]

In Jan. we had two hunters from Wyoming come down and hunt an aoudad on a 23K acre high fenced ranch where I go. They saw some smaller female aoudads, but they never shot an aoudad, despite spending a week trying. There are big aoudads there but its a big area with lots of cover, etc. so they are hard to find sometimes.

Greenhorn, I searched for water buffalo and found the thread I think you''re remembering. http://onyourownadventures.com/hunttalk/showthread.php?t=230062&highlight=water+buffalo

 

[Topgun 30-06]

Tom---We are wasting our time when people like MHMT make comments like that last post. Africa has become more and more high fenced over the last decade or two and I'll bet if any of these guys dissing Texas could go over there for a hunt they would! Then they would probably come back and post pictures all over the net and maybe even say how hard the hunting was! If two identical 30,000 acre pieces of property only differed in that one had a high fence and the other didn't, I can guarantee that if the same number of hunters went on each one they wouldn't know what one they were on if they weren't told. It's really a shame that unknowing people immediately equate high fence to penned, canned hunts because it ain't so. The big difference in the high fence and public property is that the owner can control numbers of hunters, thus allowing a good percentage of bucks to reach maturity and satisfy what many, if not the majority, of the hunters would like to be able to shoot.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Miller, you are slipping, 4 pages into this thread, and we don't have a picture of Tom with his barrel and critter....

 

[mtlion]

If two identical 30,000 acre pieces of property only differed in that one had a high fence and the other didn't, I can guarantee that if the same number of hunters went on each one they wouldn't know what one they were on if they weren't told.

Ummm. Don't want to split hairs but wouldn't they realize which one they were on when they entered through the "gate".

 

[smarandr]

Ummm. Don't want to split hairs but wouldn't they realize which one they were on when they entered through the "gate".

Not if you get dropped off by a helicopter