Texas circus animal hunting on 60 Minutes tonight

[Randy49er]

My son went on a Whitetail management hunt in Texas 2 weeks ago. He was told by the host that there is very little if any public land, that if you wanted to hunt, you have to know a rancher or buy a hunting lease. Is this a fact for the whole state or just central Texas?

 

[noharleyyet]

How big's an island have to be before its considered fair chase?

...apparently Ahfreeka sized.

Randy 49er My son went on a Whitetail management hunt in Texas 2 weeks ago. He was told by the host that there is very little if any public land, that if you wanted to hunt, you have to know a rancher or buy a hunting lease. Is this a fact for the whole state or just central Texas?

..pretty much the way it is statewide Randy.

I just wish I had the jack to buy an anytime tag and hire a crew to human fence me a spidey bull.

 

[jabber]

...apparently Ahfreeka sized.




..pretty much the way it is statewide Randy.

I just wish I had the jack to buy an anytime tag and hire a crew to human fence me a spidey bull.

 

[Wyodeerhunter]

Serious question??

I spent 3 seasons guiding on a high fenced ranch. 100-110 days in the field each of those years, right about 40 hunters each year. Every bit of half of them went home without a deer.

In fact, we had 5 guides running the same schedule. So really close to 200 different hunters and we averaged right about 80 bucks a year.

Wow sounds like your guides really suck. Maybe they should start with a pen and graduate to a high fence.....

 

[TLC]

thinking there have been folks from this board that have done hunting for oryx on a military installition? in new mexico? and know that the military installations are fenced. what's the opinion on that? also, have hog hunted on/at fort benning in georgia behind a high fence. 186,000 acres. never saw a single hog the whole time. not into the high fence deal for small acreages, but when you get to the ones that are thousands of acres, what seems to be the problem? if the animals roam free, and are not let out in the morning to get killed, fail to see the issue?

 

[Smoked]

thinking there have been folks from this board that have done hunting for oryx on a military installition? in new mexico? and know that the military installations are fenced. what's the opinion on that? also, have hog hunted on/at fort benning in georgia behind a high fence. 186,000 acres. never saw a single hog the whole time. not into the high fence deal for small acreages, but when you get to the ones that are thousands of acres, what seems to be the problem? if the animals roam free, and are not let out in the morning to get killed, fail to see the issue?

The WSMR is fenced but it is not a high fence it is just a normal fence that everyone uses. Which is why they run off range hunts because the oryx can leave the range whenever they want to. Trust me those oryx are not trapped on the range, if they didn't heavily hunt them off range there would be oryx all over New Mexico.

 

[Big Fin]

Interesting to read these thoughts here. First I want to thank Trevore for providing his perspective, and informing me that Texas is different than most other states, in the respect that TX forces all people to purchase a state hunting license, even those hunting these private herds. Most states I am familiar with were different.

As far as my impressions of this topic, I continue to go back to the freedom for each person to do as they damn well please, so long as it is legal. I think most feel that way. Doesn't mean I am going to participate, or even defend it when under attack.

When it comes to the high fenced industry, they would be well served to police their own ranks. Everyone wants to protect the lowest common denominator under the "circle the wagons theory." That does nothing for the industry as a whole, either in the eyes of non-hunters or in the eyes of hunters when hunters are asked to come to the defense of these small pens with domestic animals normally found in the wild.

If they got rid of the small pens, they would probably come under less scrutiny. If they got rid of the tame animal shooting, like the elk shooting operations like I have seen in MT, ID, CO, and ND, they would probably be better off. No way you are going to convince most people who have hunted wild elk, that elk in a pennned setting, especially elk that have been fed and accustomed to human activity, is elk hunting.

Example - In 2010, my brother and I see a bunch of elk on our Colorado elk hunt. Then we realize we were glassing a high fence game farm a couple miles away. A couple days later we see a horse trailer full of live bull elk headed down off the hill. We ask some of the locals what is up with that. They tell us the elk are being taken down to the lower pastures for clients to shoot.

Try as some may to convince me, keeping elk in a thousand acre pen, feeding them like cattle, then bringing them to a small pen on flat ground to be shot, will never be considered hunting in my mind. It is never anything I will come to the defense of. This is the impression I have of the penned shooting industry, as that is what I have been exposed to in the many states where I have seen it. Hardly an impression that helps an industy that wants me and similar people to come to their defense.

Same with the whitetail pens of the Midwest. Pens where a recent TV show I watched sat in the same building and shot three genetically engineered and completely tame bucks, all over 300", all from the same chair, while the bucks ate from the same bait pile. The "lowest common denominator" principle in action.

Those who defend these operations always cite the large enclosures where escapement of wild whitetails can surely be much different than shooting tame herds of "robo bucks" or ear-tagged elk on the wide open flats of a 100 acre pasture. I suspect if they were all large enclosures, the concern would be much less, and the attacks on such would be far less. And, support from hunters not participating in penned shooting might be easier to obtain.

Yet, like many things, our society clamors to defend the lowest common denominator. We are asked to circle the wagons everytime one of the small pens come under attack. Pens, who under my personal feelings, should have no connection to notion of hunting supported by the 90% of Americans who are not anti-hunters.

I am tired of circling the wagons for these operators. I am more than comfortable to toss them outside of the circle. I know some will say, "The antis are going to come after your hunting, once they get rid of the penned shooters."

I say, "Let 'em come." The 10% of the country who are anti hunters, don't have a prayer agains the 10% who hunt, when we are supported by most of the 80% in the middle who see hunting as something valuable to society, both today and historically. When we protect the jokers asking for cover from hunters, we quickly lose a big segment of the 80% in the middle, making the future of free chase hunting more tenuous. Not something I am willing to sit by and let happen.

Having these penned operations scream and yell for help gets old. They are participating in a business venture that is fraught with problems, both real and imagined. They continue to ask the good image of hunting to cover for their actions, when those actions have no commonality with hunting. Why we let ourselves continue to worry about the survival of these problem children is beyond me.

Again, personal opinion here. I feel if we continue to succumb to the circle the wagons and spend our energy protecting the lowest forms of animal killing as somehow being hunting, we are setting ourselves up for more problems, not less. Our scarce resources of time and money are needed in far more urgent causes. The support we have with non-hunters decreases

If the anti-hunters wiped out every one of these small enclosures that have you shoot tame elk, genetically engineered bucks, etc. I really would lose no sleep. I doubt you could get me to sign a petition to defend them, and certainly not send any money to support.

This piece on 60 minutes, and the points Trevore made, have made me more informed about the large enclosures that are doing something to support the last bastions of these species extinct from their home ranges. I had no idea, prior to Sunday. And my impressions of those specific operations have been changed somewhat.

But, it has done nothing to change my impressions about the operations I have witnessed firsthand, and which I find to be such a pox on the image of hunting.

 

[Tom]

Its not a circus animal, they are the beautiful scimitar horned oryx antelope. They were saved from extinction by the high fence operations where they were protected and hunted by the public who are willing to pay for their management. The show had a hunter and a ranch manager, who made that exact point. This new permit required to transport or shoot them after April 4 is hurting that successful management, probably, its expected by those who manage them well. The head of the exotic wildlife association made that point on the show. The anti lady, Friends of Animals head, would rather not have them or anything hunted, if you go to their web page story on this. http://friendsofanimals.org/ That seems to be the main points of the show.

Anti dogs, anti baiting, anti food plots, anti high fence, its all anti hunting of one type or another since those are and have been legal methods (though not for all states and their hunting heritage) of hunting in many places for a long time, in my opinion.

 

[MNHunter]

Very well put Randy. My sentiments exactly.

 

[BuzzH]

In my very limited experience with Texas, there is a pretty clear distinction between High Fence Pen shoots and low fence hunting...

I'm in the same camp as Randy, in that I wont be wasting my time to bother with defending penned shooting of animals.

That said, on a low fence hunt for free-range hogs and exotics in Texas, its no different than what goes on in places like New Zealand or Hawaii.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

I really can't believe how many people here are equating a 30,000 acre ranch with "penned operations". The lady went out with the guy on that Oryx hunt and they came back empty and had to go to another location on another attempt where he was successful. I hunted the Hill country north of San Antonio and the Brush country of south Texas for years, never inside a high fence, but I can guarantee that Texas is completely different from anywhere else in the US and has places so large that you would never know there is a fence of any type. For many of the animals like whitetail deer they are as fair chase as anywhere you would go in the world. How many of you guys would go over and shoot game in Africa and think nothing of it? If you say yea, sure, then you are a hypocrite because, without a doubt, most game over there is under the same type of high fence situation like down there in Texas! Sure, the large percentage of guys that have exotics are making money from them. Maybe they aren't true "conservationists" in the total sense of the word, but the end result is that at least those animals being hunted in Texas and Africa are all free roaming and alive, rather than in a little zoo enclosure or extinct from the planet! That is basically what the TV feature brought across and the anti hunting gal came across as a nut case, which many like her are and they won't stop until all hunting is eliminated or they draw their last breath, whichever comes first!!!

 

[noharleyyet]

Texas circus animal hunting on 60 Minutes tonight

Kinda hard not to jump to the lowest common denominator conclusion with a thread title like this...but the segment itself did nothing to justify it.

 

[Moosie]

I spent 3 seasons guiding on a high fenced ranch. 100-110 days in the field each of those years, right about 40 hunters each year. Every bit of half of them went home without a deer.

Serious ?? Were they all from Texas

I've hunted the High fence several times, that's why I ask

 

[rmyoung1]

When we protect the jokers asking for cover from hunters, we quickly lose a big segment of the 80% in the middle, making the future of free chase hunting more tenuous. Not something I am willing to sit by and let happen.

I feel if we continue to succumb to the circle the wagons and spend our energy protecting the lowest forms of animal killing as somehow being hunting, we are setting ourselves up for more problems, not less. Our scarce resources of time and money are needed in far more urgent causes. The support we have with non-hunters decreases

Very well said, Big Fin.

 

[Tom]

Those who saved that species, scimitar horned oryx are less of a "joker" in my mind than most people in this world. There are many benefits from high fence operations and many varieties of them, saving the scimitar horned oryx is one of the admirable and good benefits worthy of my support in time and money.

I hope the 10% fee after April 4 that goes to those who have not been managing these animals well, will improve their management. But they may be the people who led to the virtual extinction of these animals and not manage their new income any better than before. One land owner and ranch manager I know, earlier this month remarked his fees may go to some Ethiopian to get drunk on. I haven't heard how the feds. intend to make sure the 10% fee collected is managed well.

 

[Oak]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apMyjOAacyA

 

[Tom]

Its better to not circle the wagons, but to be prohunting.

"Friends of Animals" Position Statement on Hunting:

"Hunting is cruel. It is deceitful. It is socially unjustifiable. It is ecologically disruptive. Friends of Animals opposes hunting in all its forms."

"The cruelty of hunting involves the causing of gratuitous pain to wild animals."

"Friends of Animals is unequivocally against hunting and the destructive methods of "wildlife management" that caters to, and fosters hunting. Hunting is an act against Nature on both moral and biological grounds."

 

[mtmiller]

Its better to not circle the wagons, but to be prohunting.

My reading comprehension blows, someone help me out please.

 

[1_pointer]

My reading comprehension blows, someone help me out please.

I got nothing...

 

[Tom]

Do something to promote hunting, educate people: we kill and eat animals, its ok.

http://capwiz.com/biggameforever/home/ The antis would rather wolves do that, eh?

There's a petition to sign and politicians to tell, no wolves in CO please. There's something positive for hunting you might be able to accept and would be worth your time.