Texas circus animal hunting on 60 Minutes tonight
- Thread starter Oak
- Start date
noharleyyet
Well-known member
...the antis won't stop at Texas Oak
Great, another penned shooting operation being touted as "hunting." Hope that is not how it comes across, but that is how these usually end up.
Why do they never have a discussion about "hunting" as it occurs outside the pens? Never mind, I know the answer.
Why do they never have a discussion about "hunting" as it occurs outside the pens? Never mind, I know the answer.
trevore
New member
I've hunted plenty of high fenced ranches and it can be as much of a challenge as hunting anywhere. Don't knock it unless you've done it.
Yes there are "circus" operations out there, but plenty of the so called pens are plenty big and plenty difficult to hunt.
Yes there are "circus" operations out there, but plenty of the so called pens are plenty big and plenty difficult to hunt.
noharleyyet
Well-known member
Indeed! But some call me "anti" for not defending shooting animals inside a fence and calling it hunting?
Whoa, who called YOU anti?
Whoa, who called YOU anti?
Ok, not specifically. But I saw someone on another forum bitching about the "antis" when they saw this story. I will reserve judgement until after I watch it, but if I don't support what I see as being "hunting," does that make me an "anti" too?Did you notice the title of the video at the link? "Preview: Big Game Hunting" I will be really curious to see how much "hunting" is depicted. I'm sure it won't be what many would want portrayed as "big game hunting" to the non-hunting public. Why do those guys even do these interviews???
Trev, if it is legal in a state, I really don't care if people participate. For those who like it, go have at it.
I have a problem having it passed off as hunting. Not based on how big the pen is or how high/low the fence is, but rather based on the criteria I use to define hunting. In the context of hunting as hunting has evolved in our country, it does not meet the criteria for my definition of hunting. And I completely understand that my definition of hunting is not the only definition out there.
Maybe it is different in TX than it was when it was allowed in MT. In MT, there was no contribution to conservation, as tags were bought from the landowner, not FWP. Permitting was done by the Department of Commerce, not FWP. Yet, FWP, with hunter dollars, spent millions enforcing rules about escapement, managing bovine TB outbreaks on these operations, testing for CWD, prosecuting operators who enclosed wild elk, and a myriad of other things that took away hunter money that should have been used for conservation.
I am not aware of how these other states do it. Maybe they do it all through their fish and game agencies. When we were involved in the debate ten years ago, most the other states were encountering the same issues and the problems were being funded by hunters.
I have yet to see these TV reports go after fair chase hunting. They always use the pen operations as their examples, lumping traditional hunting into that same pot. Pretty easy to paint a bad picture of hunting under the conditions that some of this stuff occurs. The viewer gets to see some exotic animal running around with enough arrows to be mistaken for a pin cushion. Not that bad things don't happen outside the pen, but the entire set up of the pen operations they show on these reports make for an easy conduit to the emotions that provide bias against hunting.
When the pricing is often a function of antler size, it is hard to defend that there is any food procurement to these shoots. Hard to convince many, even serious hunters as myself, that these guys are doing this for any food value.
And if these pens are the image of what hunters are doing for conservation of species and habitat, we will lose any identity of the huge amounts of conservation work hunters have done in the last eighty years. Not something I want to see happen and will fight to make the distinction when people use these activities to try belittle the real work hunters have done for species and habitat.
Given that, I have a hard time calling it hunting. I will continue to look at it as penned shooting until someone can show me that it is a contributor to conservation, rather than a detriment to conservation.
I am sure to some, that comes across as "holier than thou." Not trying to sound that way, just tired of how hunting gets drug through the mud with activities being portrayed as hunting, when they have no connection to hunting as a conservation activity, and in most instances results in less conservation and lower image of hunting.
As to your comment to not knock it until I try it, I understand where you are coming from. But, I have never smoked dope and I am plenty confident that it is not beneficial to society, even without having smoked it myself. Maybe I am a pompous ass for putting it that way, but I don't think I have to participate in a penned shoot, just to determine whether or not it is good for the future of hunting.
To those who want to continue to do these type of things, in states where it is legal, I say knock yourself out. Just don't expect me, and probably many others, to come to the rescue when that activity is under attack. And when it is being lumped in with hunting, expect me, and probably many others, to not sit there and let the identity of hunting be lumped in with these questionable activities.
For example???? I have been to a few anywheres.
noharleyyet
Well-known member
Before we do the shirts and skins only my way is noble thing, who thinks Drucella the feral legal obstructionist is a total idiot...she is the type of anti who won't stop at the Texas border.
..comprende Oak?
..and who thinks the brit interviewer is hot?:hump:
..comprende Oak?
..and who thinks the brit interviewer is hot?:hump:
CabinFever
Member
The wisdom of Fin seems infinite at times...
I got Mrs. fin to tune in for the last two minutes. Not sure how it all went, but I thought the last two minutes did no damage to hunting. If anything, it isolated the point that the anti-hunter is willing to see a species disappear before they would let it be hunted, even if hunting saved the species.
trevore
New member
I've hunted mule deer, elk and antelope in Colorado and New Mexico. As well as "free range" deer from far west texas into the Piney woods of east texas.
The hunting on many high fenced places can be compared to any of the above when it comes to putting a mature animal, regardless of specie, on the ground.
I'm not a skins/shirt kinda of guy. If it's a real operation, it's hunting fence or no fence.
Pen shoots rank right up there with poaching to me, but just because it's a high fence doesn't mean its a pen shoot. I refer to those operations as kick-n-shoots, they kick them out of the trailer and shoot em.
lumbergreg
New member
I have hunted in Montana, Idaho, Washington, and Nevada. I have NEVER hunted in a fenced area nor will I. For me, the day I have to "hunt" a fenced area is the day I never hunt again. I try not to judge the people who partake in this activity, but I usually fail in that attempt. In my eye, it's nothing more than walking out to the back 40, shooting a cow, and calling it "hunting". I was born in Montana, to a mother and father who hunted to feed their family and enjoy and celebrate the act with friends and other family members. Every day I am thankful for growing up where I did and learning the life I now cherish. Thank you mom and dad!!
Since I have never hunted a pen, I will have to take your word on it.
Any mule deer or elk hunt pics you could share with us? Would love to hear stories about those hunts. thanks...
trevore
New member
mtmiller:
I don't hunt pens, I've hunted on several different high fenced ranches. There is a difference.
Randy:
The state gets a piece of the pie from everyone who hunts in Tx. Fence no fence doesn't matter.
As far as these high fenced ranches being conservationist: Many exotics in Tx are endangered or even extinct in their native lands. The only reason those specie are alive at all is due to the monetary value some humans are willing to put on them. IE: They pay to shoot them. Without that there is zero incentive for a landowner to have them on the ranch. NO incentive, no animal. It's that simple.
You will also find that many land owners go through great lengths to make improvements to their land holdings that benefit all wildlife, not just target species. Check out the Texas Land Steward award and you can read about some of the lengths land owners have gone through to improve habitat.
As far as the costs being associated with antler size: The biggest factor in that is a hunters ego. But if you didn't have BnC and PnY and SCI you wouldn't be able to do that. But look at what BnC and PnY have done for hunting.
I don't think your an ass Randy. I don't smoke dope either, never have. I don't even drink, even though my Dr. and wife both think I should. When I said don't knock it, I meant hunting a high fenced ranch. Not a damn pen. There's a difference. I do not and will not hunt in a pen. A high fenced pasture is another story.
I don't hunt pens, I've hunted on several different high fenced ranches. There is a difference.
Randy:
The state gets a piece of the pie from everyone who hunts in Tx. Fence no fence doesn't matter.
As far as these high fenced ranches being conservationist: Many exotics in Tx are endangered or even extinct in their native lands. The only reason those specie are alive at all is due to the monetary value some humans are willing to put on them. IE: They pay to shoot them. Without that there is zero incentive for a landowner to have them on the ranch. NO incentive, no animal. It's that simple.
You will also find that many land owners go through great lengths to make improvements to their land holdings that benefit all wildlife, not just target species. Check out the Texas Land Steward award and you can read about some of the lengths land owners have gone through to improve habitat.
As far as the costs being associated with antler size: The biggest factor in that is a hunters ego. But if you didn't have BnC and PnY and SCI you wouldn't be able to do that. But look at what BnC and PnY have done for hunting.
I don't think your an ass Randy. I don't smoke dope either, never have. I don't even drink, even though my Dr. and wife both think I should. When I said don't knock it, I meant hunting a high fenced ranch. Not a damn pen. There's a difference. I do not and will not hunt in a pen. A high fenced pasture is another story.
