My partner and I got a seek outside 8 person tipi last season. We had a lightweight tent, each had a big Agnes copper spur ul 4. nice enough but you can't stand up in it and no. way to really dry stuff out when wet. And cold. This years elk trip we got to our trail head and were greeted by 18 inches of snow in late September. Luckly we only camped 500 yards from the truck so I had a shovel and cleared off an area to set up. It was down in the single digits at night and was cold. We bought the large or xl stove, not sure but about every 2-3 hours we would add wood to keep it nice inside. You could cook yourself right out of of the tipi. we put liners in both sides, glad we did. lots of condensation without it with, rained and snowed while hunting so really humid out. we are both extremely happy with the flourless tipi